Considering renting a section of my shop, what are my options for metering power?

macgyver · Apr 5, 2017

I am thinking about renting a small portion of the shop to a guy that is looking at a couple cnc machines. I don't expect it to be long term, so would rather not have the power co set another meter. I'd prefer to be able to measure what he would use on his machines. It would be 3 phase and if it pans out for both of us, I'd run his power through a sub panel.

Is there an affordable meter that I can install inline to the sub panel?

I asked in here as I am guessing someone else in here has done this (and will probably tell me not to

)

I think I have all the other stuff sorted out, so I really just would like info on a meter or how you have handled this situation.

Thanks,
Jason

Larry Dickman · Apr 5, 2017

I believe so, you can just install a meter on a sub panel. However, your biggest concern might be code violation. If your building is not classified for Multi-Tenant occupancy you could find yourself in a world of hurt.

macgyver · Apr 5, 2017

Do I just need to find another meter like I already have and put it inside or is there something more readily available than that?

No worries on code violations, thanks.

Larry Dickman · Apr 5, 2017

ones I've seen are the same as the power companies. You just need to buy a meter panel instead of a sub panel.

triumph406 · Apr 5, 2017

Maybe you could use a clamp on meter on the feed to his machines and figure out his contribution from there.

Houndogforever · Apr 5, 2017

This can be a great thing for both of you, and also could be a disaster. Whoever it is, you run the risk of him stealing customers from you. Depending on how well you know him and his ethics. I did this when I started up 15 years ago, rented about 1200 sq feet of shared space including electricity. Did that for about 7 years and then moved out to my own secure place.

Worked great for me and for him too. Just know that there is an inherent amount of trust that must be there. Plus, some people want to work 8 hours, others want to stay there into the night staying for 5 hours after you are ready to go home. So, are you prepared to give him a key to your shop for him to come at any hour?

All these things need to be talked about first.

E.F. Thumann · Apr 5, 2017

I use an e-mon d-mon. Easy as pie.

swatkins · Apr 5, 2017

When I first read your reply I though it was a bunch of typos

IT does look like just the thing he needs... Class 2 Three-Phase kWh/kW (Demand) Submeter - Products | E-Mon

Red James · Apr 5, 2017

With three phase metering power is not so hard, but what is hard is calculation of demand time and single phase usage. Might be easier and fairer to average your last few bills and let your 'tenant' pay anything over your average. Especially if this is a short term thing.

Guest · Apr 5, 2017

Red James said:
With three phase metering power is not so hard, but what is hard is calculation of demand time and single phase usage. Might be easier and fairer to average your last few bills and let your 'tenant' pay anything over your average. Especially if this is a short term thing.

What would really be fun is if it was at a location where the power company had tiered pricing, where on top of the demand multiplier the more you use the more per KWH you pay. There are cases where 50% more usage could cause an electric bill to double. A lot of California power companies pull that crap, thank God I finally fled that state.

triumph406 · Apr 5, 2017

When I first started out I looked into sharing shop space with another shop, after we talked about sharing electricity, how many keys I could have, when I had access, who I could invite in, I realised there were too many pitfalls, so I got my own space. looking back on it I think i made the right choice.

michiganbuck · Apr 5, 2017

QT: [looking at a couple cnc machines.] Might one just consider and hours meter and (roughly) figure from that?

Bobw · Apr 5, 2017

Shared some shop space with a wood worker years ago.. Temporary thing.

I picked up the whole electric bill, it was part of the "rent".

If you want $500 from him plus electricity, and you are currently using about
$200 in electricity, just charge him $300, plus the electric bill...

Trying to meter his power usage sounds like a F'n pain in the arse, especially
for a temporary thing. What if he is working nights, how are you going to meter
his extra light usage? Plugs a sander into a wall socket??

Orange Vise · Apr 5, 2017

macgyver said:
I am thinking about renting a small portion of the shop to a guy that is looking at a couple cnc machines. I don't expect it to be long term

Expectations now vs. reality a year from now are often very different.

From your wording, it sounds like he's currently employed and thinking about going out on his own, but doing it with as little risk as possible (by shifting the burden onto you).

For both your sakes, don't do it. You're in the machining business, not the real estate business. Your efforts should be focused on selling more parts, not chasing him for monthly payments.

macgyver · Apr 5, 2017

I know I am a cheapskate, but is there anything less than $5-700 out there?

I will have to look into the power bill, it might be tiered, that could make a difference. If he gets a good sized lathe, I see it using more juice than I do on my machines.

Yes, the power consumption is the least of my concerns. It is someone I trust etc, but even at that, I do have some concerns. It is not anywhere close to actually happening, just doing my homework right now in case we want to go down that path.

Bondo · Apr 5, 2017

Just remember that friends are friends and business is business.

I like the idea of 300+ electric bill. It is basically a take it or leave it. This is also good on his part because as he could mess with you, you could jack the electric up. So it sounds fair to both sides. Because what if he adds in AC or electric heat it something else high cost. It's their problem.

I don't know about using the space though. I personally like it to be a multi use building. This works for throwing someone out as well.

In the present, you just can't trust anyone 100% anymore.

Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk

macds · Apr 5, 2017

macgyver said:
I know I am a cheapskate, but is there anything less than $5-700 out there?

I will have to look into the power bill, it might be tiered, that could make a difference. If he gets a good sized lathe, I see it using more juice than I do on my machines.

Yes, the power consumption is the least of my concerns. It is someone I trust etc, but even at that, I do have some concerns. It is not anywhere close to actually happening, just doing my homework right now in case we want to go down that path.

Being on a farm, the power co refuses to put in a separate meter for my "drive shed".
I use a unit from eye-dro. They are based in waterloo. its cloud based, so use can see consumption from anywhere using your smart phone.
Its made splitting the hydro bill up here, much easier.
Tracks time of use ,etc.
check it out eyedro.com
buy the home wired unit, and a third 200a sensor. install in buddies sub panel. done

I have one in the house, barn, and shop. Helps keep kathleen honest

Cheers

Bobw · Apr 5, 2017

macgyver said:
It is someone I trust etc,

I said that ONCE, guess what that cost me??? I'm still pulling splinters
out of my ass.

I came out on the good end, after a thorough fucking, but its not a ride I'd
like to take again.

Its awesome when it works like it should, but it HURTS when it doesn't.

Business will let you know if your friend, who is/was fun to hang out with, is actually
a worthless useless lowlife lying thieving stealing scumbag sack of shit, who's greatest
contribution/accomplishment to anything ever will be as fertilizer when he's dead.

Modelman · Apr 5, 2017

I assume you have three phase power? Here's a different view. Many power companies refuse to put a second service into a building, citing building codes that prohibit having two services into the same building. That means, if you ever max out your service, they will force you to replace your existing service with one of larger capacity, which can get pricey, since it requires a new meter base, main breaker and main panel.

The one exception to this is rental units. Typically, each unit can have it's own service. If the rental units later come under a common tenant, commonly the multiple services are grandfathered, which means both are available for your use.

So, this may be a great opertunity to double your service capacity for a bargain price. Have the tenant call the power company and arrange to put his own service in. If he later moves out, it will be there for the next tenant. Or you will have the advantage of the added capacity in the future.

Dennis

Mark Rand · Apr 5, 2017

macgyver said:
I know I am a cheapskate, but is there anything less than $5-700 out there?

I will have to look into the power bill, it might be tiered, that could make a difference. If he gets a good sized lathe, I see it using more juice than I do on my machines.

Yes, the power consumption is the least of my concerns. It is someone I trust etc, but even at that, I do have some concerns. It is not anywhere close to actually happening, just doing my homework right now in case we want to go down that path.

Are you currently being billed for peak demand? If not, any kWHr meter will do the job if you and the tennant are happy with it. If you have peak/demand charges, can you negotiate a fee for them and then charge a kWHr rate for normal use? If so, the same applies. If you can't do these, it might be time to talk to the utility about a seaparate contract for the tennant's use.

For my home shop, I ended up buying (via fleabay), a meter that was the same model, build in the same factory as my official utitilt meter (I'd even had high grade meters calibrated at that factory for my own company's purposes!).

Considering renting a section of my shop, what are my options for metering power?

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