Customer arranged truck freight-I get billed for freight cost-what to do?

Machinery_E · Jun 15, 2017

Guy got a piece of equipment from me-the agreement was he would arrange the freight, I'd band it to skid and load it. Customer is out in California, he set freight up through Pitt-Ohio. Got the bill of lading e-mailed to me, printed it out, gave it to the driver, driver signed it, loaded the truck, everything seemed good.

A few days ago I got the invoice for the freight, which was for more than what I sold the equipment for. Customer seems to have fallen off the face of the earth now, so far I can't get ahold of him. Pitt-Ohio in a nut shell is saying they handed the shipment off to a third party trucking company...since the 3rd party trucking company delivered it to a residential address, 3rd party trucking company says they can't bill the customer for the freight charges. Pitt-Ohio said since the bill of lading did not have COL or PPD checked, its a prepaid shipment, thus I must pay the charges.

There is a quote number on the bill of lading the customer got, and Pitt-Ohio seems to be as confused about this as much as I am-any ideas on what to do?

CalG · Jun 15, 2017

If YOU didn't sign anything,

You should be off the hook.

Freight companies are like medical service. Bill EVERYONE and see who pays. If they all do, so much the better!

CarlBoyd · Jun 15, 2017

CalG said:
If YOU didn't sign anything,

You should be off the hook.

Truly, truly. You did not request the shipment, you did not sign anything, you do not pay. Send the invoice back.

CarlBoyd

guest · Jun 15, 2017

Yep, send the invoice back, include the contact information for the guy that bought the equipment.

Let'em collect from him.

No tickee, no laundry.

Mud · Jun 15, 2017

Might be just a "pay me" tactic. I found that when someone had UPS truck freight pick something up here, i received a bill from them with my UPS account number and a full retail price for the shipment. I flipped out and called for an explanation. I was told, when the customer pays, I wouldn't have to. So I no longer allow anyone to send UPS to pick anything up here, because UPS could muck up my account until I pay if they don't get it from the customer.

Mebfab · Jun 15, 2017

Anyone try writing in large letters "freight cost paid by receiver only - XYZ company"

garyhlucas · Jun 15, 2017

I'd tell Pitt Ohio that since they don't have a single document with your signature they can pound sand. They can sue, but their lawyers will charge them more than the freight bill. IF it got to court you could smile, hand them a check knowing they just lost a bunch of money getting you there. In the meantime possesion is still 9/10ths of the law. You still have your money and they got nothing.

Tony Quiring · Jun 16, 2017

Locate a sales agent or management in the company and forward the agreement with the customer with an explanation of terms indicating customer was to setup freight.

Also ask them why they provided services without payment confirmed.

Also confirm that you had no party to ordering the shipment so no responsibility for it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

Machinery_E · Jun 16, 2017

Thanks guys, I'm 99% sure I didn't sign the bill of lading. Didn't get or sign any other paperwork.

I've had a pickup by UPS freight before and thankfully didn't get a bill-sounds like I need to start using Mebfabs idea of writing that disclaimer on the bill of lading.

I guess we'll see how it goes, as it stands now, Pitt-Ohio is trying to get ahold of the customer which they've also asked me to do also. My concern with refusing to pay is Pitt-Ohio turning me over to a collection agency and maybe blacklisting me, refusing to pickup or deliver. Not sure if all that is worth that, or it would be better to pay and write it up as expensive lesson if the customer doesn't come through.

vettedude · Jun 16, 2017

Machinery_E said:
My concern with refusing to pay is Pitt-Ohio turning me over to a collection agency and maybe blacklisting me, refusing to pickup or deliver. Not sure if all that is worth that, or it would be better to pay and write it up as expensive lesson if the customer doesn't come through.

Go on the offensive, call / file with the BBB. Threaten to sue them for not doing due diligence on their side and using fishing style business tactics. How did they not collect before shipping, i have never used freight an not pre-paid for it. Did they give this guy credit? How is it your responsibility to get a bill paid. I would not have released that person/customers contact information either. Did you not secure payment before sending equipment? How are you responsible for less than diligent business.

Machinery_E · Jun 16, 2017

Did they give this guy credit? How is it your responsibility to get a bill paid. I would not have released that person/customers contact information either. Did you not secure payment before sending equipment?

Good question on how they extended credit-I'm thinking it was due to a mixup on who was paying for freight. Prepaid, I would think it would be whoever ordered the shipment. Yes, I got paid for the equipment-not for the freight as the agreement was for the customer to setup and pay for the freight-I would just skid and load...did this in the past with no problems...

Zahnrad Kopf · Jun 16, 2017

E,

Hi again. Good to see you writing. Sorry for the heartburn you're experiencing.

Listen to what others have written. Remember my own tribulations with freight companies? They're scumbags. The lot of'm. And you are FAR too nice of a person, in real life. You are a very upstanding man, and frankly that is the ONLY reason that it has gotten this far - Because you are the sort of person that wants everyone to be covered.

This is not your burden. Plain and simple. I agree with vettebob - Go on the offensive. Tell them if they do not stop harassing you they will be sued. File complaints with the state and local government agencies. Explain your position to the shipper calmly, matter-of-factly, and forcefully. Then tell them to go pound sand. This is not your fight. ( regarding the payment ) It is between them and the buyer. They're just slinging shite and watching for what sticks.

Good luck.

robert123 · Jun 16, 2017

In the future, just make sure the BOL is marked freight collect. There may be a box to check for this. This means the consignee (receiver) is responsible for payment. Freight prepaid means the shipper is paying. I always make a copy of the BOL after the driver signs it should there be any questions.

Modelman · Jun 16, 2017

Motor freight is such a pain. I recall from years ago when I did ship some product motor freight, the prepay and collect check boxes on the bill of lading, and recall the note that if not checked the shipment was prepaid.

So, I went searching the web for a definition of the terms. Here is the best I've found:

Former Article 2 of the UCC did not define the terms "prepaid" or "collect." One place the terms "prepaid" and "collect" are defined is the National Motor Freight Classification (NMFC), published by the National Motor Freight Traffic Association, Inc. (NMFTA), a non-profit trade association.

Item 110 of the Classification contains the following definitions:

Section 5 (a) A "prepaid shipment" is one on which the charges for transportation service rendered at the request of the consignor, including charges for any accessorial services performed at the request of the consignor, are to be paid by the consignor.

Section 5 (b) A "collect shipment" is one on which the charges for transportation service, including accessorial services rendered at the request of the consignee, or requested by the consignor for the consignee, are to be paid for by the consignee.

Prepaid does not mean "paid in advance" nor does "collect" mean "C.O.D." Rather, these terms are designations in a truck bill of lading to indicate who has primary liability to the carrier for its charges, i.e., the consignor if "prepaid" or the consignee if "collect." Although the definitions of the NMFC legally control a shipment only when the motor carrier participates in the NMFC, in actual practice today the terms "prepaid" and "collect" are widely used for shipments not technically subject to the NMFC.

A prepaid bill does not mean it was paid in advance, it means it is billed to the shipper. However, the question here is who is the shipper? It is NOT the OP... the OP sold the equipment FOB his dock, leaving the purchaser to make the shipping arrangements, which he did. That makes the purchaser the shipper, more technically the consignor. He is simply shipping his equipment to himself at a different location. Done all the time.

Explain it to the carrier in those terms and tell them to go pound sand.

Dennis

Mud · Jun 16, 2017

Zahnrad Kopf said:
Remember my own tribulations with freight companies? They're scumbags.

Quoted for truth. And he's being kind. I've come to the conclusion that freight companies are only moving freight as a sideline, their real profit center is shaking small companies down for cash. Their paperwork are instruments of destruction. The objective is to get you on the hook somehow and squeeze for all you will yield. If your goods get to where you want them, that's just a convenient circumstance, and a useful pretext.

Mebfab · Jun 16, 2017

Modelman said:
[/FONT][/COLOR]A prepaid bill does not mean it was paid in advance, it means it is billed to the shipper. However, the question here is who is the shipper? It is NOT the OP... the OP sold the equipment FOB his dock, leaving the purchaser to make the shipping arrangements, which he did. That makes the purchaser the shipper, more technically the consignor. He is simply shipping his equipment to himself at a different location. Done all the time.

And this is the confusing problem. When I sell I always make the other party do the legwork on trucking. I just load. So I am the consignee, And since they pay for and arrange shipping they are the shipper? I had some real problems with yellow freight. They said both boxes checked and since I was the shipper since I loaded the truck I was responsable. I would call end explain. Each person I talked to said they took care of it. But another bill would always show up. No more yellow freight. And all BOL to be marked in large letters who pays shipping, IE the name, address and ph# of the other guy.

gustafson · Jun 16, 2017

Court in Mixed Ruling In Trucking Bankruptcy - NYTimes.com

I remember this although was never affected by it. Basically companies started buying bankrupt trucking companies and chasing their customers for unpaid discounts

yeah, and I frequently get invoices from Yellow, usually I ignore them

Mud · Jun 16, 2017

No more yellow freight.

Yellow is the worst of the worst. I won't use them, won't even ask for a quote, and won't voluntarily allow someone to ship to me using Yellow. I swore them off for 15 years. I let a broker talk me into using them one time 2 years ago, now it's never again.

Modelman · Jun 16, 2017

Mebfab said:
And this is the confusing problem. When I sell I always make the other party do the legwork on trucking. I just load. So I am the consignee, And since they pay for and arrange shipping they are the shipper? I had some real problems with yellow freight. They said both boxes checked and since I was the shipper since I loaded the truck I was responsable. I would call end explain. Each person I talked to said they took care of it. But another bill would always show up. No more yellow freight. And all BOL to be marked in large letters who pays shipping, IE the name, address and ph# of the other guy.

No. The consignee is the party being shipped TO. The consignor is the party who arranged the shipping. You are just the owner of the warehouse where the consigor's freight was stored. If you didn't make the arrangements or sign anything, you are not a party to the transaction at all. The only reason they are billing you is they know where you are, and they apparently can't find either the consignee or consignor (apparently the same party.) Don't let them suck you into this, it's not your problem.

Dennis

mfisher · Jun 16, 2017

This is what INCOterms are made for, although in this (and most) cases the shipping company probably doesn't care what the agreement between buyer and seller is

For any new work, figure out what your specific case is on the charts, and make sure to quote that term in any agreement paperwork, and on any shipping documents.

One line of text can tell you who is responsible for arranging, performing, insuring and paying. Just make sure you use the right term.

Customer arranged truck freight-I get billed for freight cost-what to do?

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