Customers that send out a lot of quotes, "cast netting" - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    So when the government is going to contact for a new jet fighter, rocket, aircraft carrier, etc. should they just call up a company like Boeing and say "We'll take whatever you happen to design at whatever price you like"? It's been long standing policy to have two, three, sometimes five different companies submit designs and/or prototypes, along with cost estimates, before awarding the contract.
    If the government took Boeings proposal and showed it to Bombardier in detail, and vice versa... that is the issue that was addressed in that post. Even well meaning people who have never worked in design often do not understand the ownership and value of ideas. If you have not paid someone for there design work, but you show it to company B saying we like what company A drew up..here it is can you do it like this. Well then you are stealing from company A.

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  3. #42
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    If it is blueprint tooling and no design which rules apply?
    OK to share prices and ask for re-quote?
    Bob

  4. #43
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    I tell my customers all the time that if it is the right part for the machines I have I will always be the best price. If they would be run better/more efficiently on a different machine then they should find someone with those machines. Sometimes I price parts a little too high because I am busy and cannot give it the attention it deserves. Customers understand this and sometimes I am asked to come down a little on pricing. I then offer the customer different scenarios to make it work for both of us. If we can come to an agreement I then get the job.

    A common issue with parts is a shop will low ball the job just to get it. Then come up on pricing a little bit every time it comes back up. Customers hate this because usually they have the parts priced into their catalog. They cannot print tens of thousands of catalogs every 3 months just cause pricing goes up. This is why I have no problem sharing quotes. It works out best for both of us. Of course I am only talking screw machine parts that are under a dollar each for thousands of parts. Not a lot of time goes into quoting but my customers know I am legit and if I cannot lower my pricing I will tell them why. Sometimes they still give me the jobs and pay my pricing just because they like doing business with me and know they will get quality parts every time.

    Sometimes it makes sense to pay a little more knowing you will get what you want as opposed to taking a chance elsewhere and finding out they quoted wrong and had too many issues machining them.

    Example...A new customer had some parts made in China a few years back. He had them nickel plated and they ended up rusting. He had to pay .60 cents per part to have them stripped and re plated (plating was to thin). This took time, capital, and ended up costing more than paying U.S. pricing.
    I also am within driving distance from him so if any issues arise we can deal with them in real time. This is exactly why I got the customer as opposed to sending it out to the lowest bidder somewhere across the country or overseas for that matter.

    Him sharing these things with me gave me an idea of what I would have to beat for pricing. It gave me an idea where to start so I would not waste too much time on a job I would not get.

    Sharing is Caring.

    With the bigger companies with assemblies and tooling, proprietary info and NDA's. I would not share any info with anyone. So I guess it all depends on the situation. But in general I have no problem with a customer asking if I could price match. I like it when Customers ask questions. It helps us stay on the same page.

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  6. #44
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    When I was in the aerospace R&D industry we used to do a lot of quotes for a large PNW manufacturer.

    The theory was that despite the time and expense taken to do a proposal, (100-300 hours approx) we would eventually break thru the door and win a job from the PNW manufacturer.

    It turned out that because we did very detailed proposals, including design concepts, that PNW manufacturer management was taking the concepts and the pricing to their internal R&D dept and telling them that this is how we want the project designed, and you have to stay within this budget. The budget being whatever we had in our proposal. I've met several people who confirmed this to be true. What they were trying to do was to keep their internal organization competitive with the outside vendors.

    They were also doing the same with the handfull of other vendors who did the same type of R&D projects.

    We did eventually win a project, that got cancelled (747-500/-600) the day before the PDR (preliminary design review) meeting in Seattle.

  7. #45
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    While the old saying of ''you have to be in it'' is very true, what pisses me off is the RFQs I get that I JUST KNOW that even if I were to give them the parts along with a bottle of malt for every one, I still wouldn't get the work, …………………..and then some get shirty because I've either declined or just not bothered.

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  9. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    …………………..and then some get shirty because I've either declined or just not bothered.
    "Dumb looks are still free" comes to mind when answering them.

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  11. #47
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    Just send them my email I'm trying to fund my machine purchase haha.

  12. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    "Sometimes I tell my preferred vendor exactly what I am being quoted from others...telling them if they can get close I'd prefer to give them the business."



    That didn't surprise me, it shocked me. If it isn't against the law it should be.

    We are not talking about trade secrets, specialty anything...
    Just say 20 rods of 1018 Steel at $1/lb from Company A. Its a good price...but they only deliver once a week on Mondays...and they don't always get here as they have lots of sick drivers and trucks. Plus when they show material is not always on the truck.

    Company B Priced it at $1.5lb...not there best selling material, but I know if I order before 3pm I can almost guarranty I'll have it here tomorrow.
    Company B alwasy gives me "their" good prices, deliveries are great, quotes come back quick. I can ask questions and they come back with answers.
    So when I know I cannot get the job at $1.50/lb I have no problem calling up Company B and say...Company A has it for $1.00/lb...anyway we can get closer?
    Sometimes as I said, its a no, other times its we buy it at $1.00/lb, we have to make somethign on it...$1.25 work.
    For me, it may be worth breaking even on the material and getting it here.


    And to flip that...
    I get a sample from a customer and price 100pcs @ $100.00 each.

    When I make my delivery I inquire about our quotation. He says we are a bit high as he's paying $90.00 each...but not real happy with deliveries, parts not working 100% and their vender doesn't seem to care and his customers are complaining.
    I ask if I can take a look at it. So we go over and off the bat I see they are not casting a portion as specificed on the print, but machining...and not very well. They are welding round stock to nuts as handles, not going with purchase knobs off the print...just kinda messy.
    So I say if we have some leeway, I can skip the casting and machine a better body droppng $10 off the price AND I can make knobs that will really jaz up this piece and make it work better then that welded thing for no extra cost.

    Being upfront with me I got the job at $90 each and without casting I am making more. I am making more as we are making knobs instead of the purchased overpriced knobs. The customer is happy as a clam since he's getting his product on time, thing works perfect and now he's getting compliments from his customers and the item is selling like hotcakes.

    My customer works with me as I am his preffered vendor and I appreciate it. I try to do the same with my vendors...its not to put them in a bad position...but to give the opportunity to work WITH me.
    As to the non preffered...its only because they have chosen to play games, lack good deliveries...fail to inform me they ran out of stock and I have to wait longer. ANd worst...with those games wher you low ball on the first order then go up with each additional order...that makes it real tough for me to get reorders with upcharges each time. Also having to chase around RFQ's is a pain.


    Now to others...yes this upfront strategy is just that a way to pit one vendor against the next with every order on every item. Not what I am talking about.

    Since when is working together for a common goal against the law. Well maybe insider trading...but a differnet ball game.

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  14. #49
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    I just want to state that I'm SO thankful for the few Net 5, and COD customers I have.
    And those are the only types I have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkmc View Post
    I just want to state that I'm SO thankful for the few Net 5, and COD customers I have.
    And those are the only types I have.
    Just added my first net 30 days customer....

  17. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    So when the government is going to contact for a new jet fighter, rocket, aircraft carrier, etc. should they just call up a company like Boeing and say "We'll take whatever you happen to design at whatever price you like"? It's been long standing policy to have two, three, sometimes five different companies submit designs and/or prototypes, along with cost estimates, before awarding the contract.

    On those type jobs, the quoting process is a billed line item many times.



    --------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    On those type jobs, the quoting process is a billed line item many times.



    --------------------

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    Ox
    Company my dad works for is bidding to make the new post office truck. Started out as 6 companies, down to 4 I think. The company he works for has say $6m in development costs, $4m of which was paid by USPS. The other $2m is in hopes they get the job. Which they have now learned from doing the development, they are pretty sure they don’t want the job. Not that that is necessarily a problem, even if they got the contract USPS doesn’t have the money to pay for it. . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    Company my dad works for is bidding to make the new post office truck. Started out as 6 companies, down to 4 I think. The company he works for has say $6m in development costs, $4m of which was paid by USPS. The other $2m is in hopes they get the job. Which they have now learned from doing the development, they are pretty sure they don’t want the job. Not that that is necessarily a problem, even if they got the contract USPS doesn’t have the money to pay for it. . .
    What I call a ''funny money bullshit job'' AKA a complete waste of time, ……..only thought up to generate ''jobs for the boys'' (we have the HS2 Railway!)

    Serious Q, what's so different / special about the USPS that it needs a special truck, when (AFAIK) the British Post Office uses off the peg vehicles.

  20. #54
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    From the other side, we're a small company doing a lot of R&D projects. We'll commonly do RFQs with two or three shops. It would be very unusual to do five. We don't care what the shop rate is, only how much the parts are going to cost.

    Everything we do is time sensitive. Typically if the work, no matter what it is, takes more than 6-8 weeks, it's a no-go. These are small parts with tight tolerances and probably more features than they should have. CNC only, as cosmetics and finish would be near impossible on manual machines. Low quantities. It would be rare for us to order more than 100 parts for most things.

    We often aren't sure what quantity to order, and may be looking at inventory for some future requirement, or trying to anticipate some future customer request. Thus, in a perfect world, we wouldn't have to RFQ specific quantities, but would be thrilled to have some formula that lets us price many different scenarios.

    We use some overseas vendors. If they can meet the quality and delivery, it would be rare (OK, never) for any US vendor to compete. Some of our overseas vendors have expertise that simply isn't available here for low volume work.

    We typically do request quotes for many different parts at the same time. They are not tied together, and we'll order individual items from whomever has acceptable price and delivery times.

    Finally, I've gotten some quotes recently, one yesterday in fact, where the final price wasn't clear. Don't hide fees and stuff in the fine print, just state the price in no uncertain terms.

    BTW, we don't typically share pricing info, but it would seem wise to put a confidential notice on quotations, something to the effect that they can't be shared outside the company that submitted the RFQ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    What I call a ''funny money bullshit job'' AKA a complete waste of time, ……..only thought up to generate ''jobs for the boys'' (we have the HS2 Railway!)

    Serious Q, what's so different / special about the USPS that it needs a special truck, when (AFAIK) the British Post Office uses off the peg vehicles.
    My understanding is that the USPS prefers a right-hand drive vehicle so that the postal worker can fill mailboxes that are right on the side of the road along relatively busy streets without getting out and repeatedly exposing themselves to traffic. Makes perfect sense to me. That said, if that's the main focus of the special vehicle, one wonders why they don't order in some off-the-shelf solutions from you guys across the pond, or down under, or Japan, etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxcarPete View Post
    My understanding is that the USPS prefers a right-hand drive vehicle so that the postal worker can fill mailboxes that are right on the side of the road along relatively busy streets without getting out and repeatedly exposing themselves to traffic. Makes perfect sense to me. That said, if that's the main focus of the special vehicle, one wonders why they don't order in some off-the-shelf solutions from you guys across the pond, or down under, or Japan, etc...

    I wonder if the pedals are for the "USA normal" feet locations for the ones built here?

    My neighbor has, or had a postal Jeep for many years, but I never looked in, nor would have thought to check that 'till now.


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Serious Q, what's so different / special about the USPS that it needs a special truck, when (AFAIK) the British Post Office uses off the peg vehicles.
    They have something like a 400 page book of requirements. The vehicles they are using today were all built in the 70's and 80's and since they have been in use for that long, much of the post office is "set" in their requirements. For example, mail boxes have a regulation height. MOST "normal" vehicles do not ride at that height or at a height that would be easy for a postal worker to put mail in the mailboxes. I do not remember the actual numbers, but say for discussion, a postal driver in my town may drive 20 miles and make 1000 stops. A postal driver in a large city, may drive 10 miles and make 2500 stops. A Rural driver may drive 100 miles and make 250 stops.

    They have all sorts of completely stupid safety requirements that are not available in standard off the shelf vehicles.

    They have all sorts of completely stupid requirements that are not available in standard off the shelf vehicles.

    But when you are talking potentially several hundred thousand vehicles... it is TOO small an order to get special builds from a large manufacturer, but difficult for the small customer manufacturers.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxcarPete View Post
    My understanding is that the USPS prefers a right-hand drive vehicle so that the postal worker can fill mailboxes that are right on the side of the road along relatively busy streets without getting out and repeatedly exposing themselves to traffic. Makes perfect sense to me. That said, if that's the main focus of the special vehicle, one wonders why they don't order in some off-the-shelf solutions from you guys across the pond, or down under, or Japan, etc...
    I asked the same thing... and then learned about all the stupid requirements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I wonder if the pedals are for the "USA normal" feet locations for the ones built here?

    My neighbor has, or had a postal Jeep for many years, but I never looked in, nor would have thought to check that 'till now.


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    Ox
    Ya know... I have never asked I assumed everything was mirrored.

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  26. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post



    Ya know... I have never asked I assumed everything was mirrored.

    RHD vehicles just have the wheel on the other side, they are not mirrored

    that'd jus be weird

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    RHD vehicles just have the wheel on the other side, they are not mirrored

    that'd jus be weird
    Not according to my chum that has rented cars in Europe.
    Thus why he intentionally pre-ordered a [rental] car with an auto tranny, as he found trying to navigate a gear box with the wrong feet a bit .... unsafe...


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Not according to my chum that has rented cars in Europe.
    Thus why he intentionally pre-ordered a [rental] car with an auto tranny, as he found trying to navigate a gear box with the wrong feet a bit .... unsafe...


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    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Shifter is a little odd, but clutch is still on the left, then brake, then gas on the right. Gear pattern is the same too, just operated with the left hand makes it odd.


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