Dealing with Computer Deficient Boss

Got a problem. Have a small Mfg/Job shop with 5 employees and two brothers that own it. They are also farmers if that tells you anything. I've been with the company since before the brothers bot it. I was only 19 and the only employee at that time so wasn't in position to buy into it. The business has grown and prospered. They are Born Salesmen these two. However:::
Brother #1 decided to head off to do some foreign mission work. Very commendable. I've done it myself.
He and his wife did all the paperwork, taxes, payroll relating to the business. Let me mention they are great salesman. But. They barely know how to turn on a computer and records are at a minimum. Scrawling notes on the edge of phonebooks or newspapers and 3 days later a complete full office/break room search for it.
So.... I was chief welder and I became, well not sure what position you would call it.
Make sure materials are ordered and stuff gets done.
He hired a neighbor lady to do payroll, receive payments, send out bills, pay withholding and sales tax. She works in a bank. That DID NOT prepare her for our situation. Namely, Quickbooks and she hasn't the foggiest clue what's happening in the shop. she still works bank 4 days and does our stuff from home.
And Brother 2 who is mostly there now in the winter hasn't been involved with any paperwork other that making invoices and even that has been a nightmare because of inconsistent data entry for the last 10 years.
I've been trying to straighten up a few things mostly for my own benefit but I got real discouraged again when I realized that all my bright ideas were worthless unless Boss man agreed and used them too.
We've been having lots of stuff like bills not getting paid or getting paid twice because of outside accountant(shop has to forward bills to her
Soon after I started working with their books I was trying to work thru a different issue and started finding all these balances from up to two years old. I started working with them til I figured out the problem and proceed to bill out the outstanding ones and collected probly 20 grand for em! I mean its their money! should I care? But between computer illiterate boss and holding our 'accountants' hand I'm really confused what Needs to be done. Basically if my boss would go tend his farm that would be about right.
And I think if they saw a problem they would remedy it but the business has prospered til now so why would it not continue to grow and prosper. Like they can spend 20k on concrete cuz they didn't like mud in the paint room but spend 500 on software? ridiculous!
This place was my first real job and I loved it. I earned my keep while I was welding but this management thing. Like I read hear somewhere...Getting promoted ain't all its cracked up to be.
I guess I feel they're at a point they'll have to be willing for a little more structure if they expect others to manage and work together.
Sorry about my ramblings. Blame it on mebfab he says I need to 'participate'

I think I know very well exactly what you are dealing with, I grew up 1 hour SW of you and if I am right, I don't think that there is much you can do other than move on or take on all the responsibility/paperwork. I do not think that you are going to get them to do much different than what you have right now, it would be a complete change in their culture and way of thinking.

Sorry I am not any help, maybe you need to have a get together and see what they see for the shop in the future, maybe they would let you run it.

HarvestAg I'm not quite sure where you're going with your post.

Have you offered to help and have they refused?

They run/ran a prosperous business for years but you know better than they do?

Maybe they thought their employees would help them? Would you buy a guard dog and then bark yourself everytime a stranger came to the door?

Farmers can be stubborn but the stupid ones rarely last long

Gordon

IMHO that sounds about normal for working for a farmer the world over. Don't get me wrong, some are really good, but a lot are exactly like your describing. Best thing you can do is catch them at some point and explain the problem and the needed solution as you see it, then its upto them. If it still goes to hell, finding another job is your only option.

Offer to buy them out, somehow, by assigning an equity value to your managment skills, allowing you to gradually become a partner, and then (eventually) buy them out.

After you propose that, they will either decide to pay you more as a manager, or gradually move you out of their business.

Regardless, if you do that, their response should remove the stress of your situation.

Been working in few past jobs with people like that, although not farmers. Only option is to do what you can do, propose what you think is fair, and the rest is up to them. If they want to let it sink, so be it. It is not your business, but theirs, so if they do indeed sink themselves, be prepared with another job.

Wait to make the offer to buy them out until you find the next cache of receivables.

But seriously, my first industry job was in a 'duct tape and bailing wire' place, with bookkeeping to match. It was a good place to get your start, and you really learned how to think on your feet, but it was like anti-college. Working there taught you how not to do it. That education has served me well...

Chip

Appreciate the input.


"HarvestAg I'm not quite sure where you're going with your post.

Have you offered to help and have they refused?

They run/ran a prosperous business for years but you know better than they do?

Maybe they thought their employees would help them? Would you buy a guard dog and then bark yourself everytime a stranger came to the door?

Farmers can be stubborn but the stupid ones rarely last long"

They've been owners about ten years. And no they are not stupid. I'd say the success is largely due to their PR and Sales ability. However growing from 1 employee to 5 or 6 and including outside "accounting" seems to me they are at the point where they will spin out if they don't implement some organization system. Or how big can you get and still use your head to keep track of everything?
Not like they want to get so big. But when orders come thick and fast it gets pretty hair raising around here. And their salesman natures can't turn work away!

Why would the gaurd dog bark if the owner insisted on coming to the door anyway?

I'm still not sure yet if I would want to become part owner. Biggest disadvantage is it's 30 miles from where I live. I think I'll learn what I can and when the other brother comes back in 3 years I'll say adios and start my own shop.

"maybe you need to have a get together and see what they see for the shop in the future, maybe they would let you run it. "

Its hard to "run" something with the boss around. It's always a question who takes over this or that. We need more clearly defined positions I think. It's kinda like I read on another post somewhere bout a foreman who still felt a lot better out making chips. No satisfaction in a lot of this management. Like my boss it's fine if he sits in the office and shops for tractors and check weather and markets hes the owner but I still feel like I need to be Doin somethin. So like I'm out helping the guys in the shop and He's the one entering invoices who knows how. Ya.

Do any of you use exclusively Quickbooks for orders/invoices? Or what methods/practices you use to keep tabs on orders/invoices/purchase orders/ and such?

"I'm still not sure yet if I would want to become part owner. Biggest disadvantage is it's 30 miles from where I live. I think I'll learn what I can and when the other brother comes back in 3 years I'll say adios and start my own shop."

30 minutes on the road watching the sun come up over the crops with a good cup of coffee every morning can be a great time to organize your thoughts for the coming day. Perhaps by the time the other brother returns in 3 years you'll be 1/3 owner. It's all already there, easier in many ways than starting anew. You have the benefit of the other owner being there to negotiate with, and to show him what value you bring to their shop- and what a great loss it would be if you felt frustrated enough to leave. Make sure he realizes this, and give him time to think about it, stew on it and communicate with his brother. Don't make it an ultimatum. Both you and they need to think long term as well as short term. How much longer do the brothers intend to 'work' in the business, do they wish to see it continue, who would they like to see end up with it, would YOU like to someday be the sole proprietor, etc., etc.?

Quickbooks is great for small to medium sized operations. We've used Quickbooks Pro since we started I wouldn't want to use anything else. Most accounting firms have a gal (or guy) very proficient in its use that they are more than happy to send out (for a reasonable fee) once a week, once a month, at statement time, or whenever you desire. Easy fix if you or your current gal isn't up on it or don't have the time; and you don't have the need and desire to pay for a full time person to deal with a 1/4 time job.


Best wishes on the outcome.

I'm curious regarding the issues described above how many shops out there have to go thru something similar? What is your experience as owners/managers/employees when a shop gets to the point that the owner can no longer run it all by himself? The owner has made every decision and bought and sold everything until there comes a time when it starts getting out of hand. things are forgotten or missed and what have you. Of course these things all come to light on the same day and suddenly everyone in the shop is called on to "put out the fire". We've had products pulled into the shop and an accessory quickly welded on because it had been ordered and not recorded.

So what system did you use to bring in more help in to the management and still keep everyone working together toward the same goal? Simple software, spreadsheets, or just hire enough people to keep the bases covered?

I think I probably should not comment on this, but, I know a lot of shops that have WAY over 5 employees, and the owner IS the Boss!

"I was only 19", and that does not tell us how old you are, now. You might be 24 and think that you can run the business better. He still seems to be able to write you a paycheck every week. He must be doing something right.

Not all people have to use a computer to add 2 and 2. Math is actually easy. I would bet you he could tell you within 5 bucks what the present month's billings are, and you would have to boot the machine to do so. A good farmer is a pretty canny "bidnesman".

I am surprised he has not seen through you, yet. He actually may have. He knows you think you are going to swindle him out of the business if you can, you are so much more astute, computer literate, and all.

Watch your ass or he is going to hand it to you, along with your walking papers.

" So what system did you use to bring in more help in to the management and still keep everyone working together toward the same goal? Simple software, spreadsheets, or just hire enough people to keep the bases covered? "

This is absurd. You said it is a 5 man shop, with 2 brother partners. You are now what I presume is "management", considering the way you write. Does that mean you are 3 "managers", and 4 "producers", and you are asking how many more managers you have to bring in to get production out of the few "producers" you have?

You are born to Management! They are paid by the number of people they boss. If you have your way, you will not have to produce anything, you will all, but the "farmers", get rich.

I'll just about bet you don't get away with it,they are smarter than you think. Come back and tell us how you do.

George

Excuse me, WHO thinks I'm trying to get away with something? I'm looking for ways to help the business, what's absurd about that?

Did you read my first post? "3 "managers", and 4 "producers", " (whatever!) (If you will read my first post I explained the situation. I know maybe Its not the clearest explanation but.... I don't feel like repeating myself.

Your post doesn't answer a single question. How do YOU run your business? I agree the owner IS BOSS. But when the owners gone, or even worse, occasionally gone, not everyone has the same knack of running it just like the boss. ie: in your head by gut feeling whatever makes the sale. The more people involved the more consistent things need to be, right?

If this week the boss sold "A" for 150 and a month later he sold "A" for 300 what should I sell it for?

Or if he tells a customer we can work it in two weeks and 3 weeks later I talk to the customer who wonders why it isn't done?


I happen to be the one that will ultimately take the flak or face the customer if the "producers" run out of material or don't get done what was promised. My question wasn't whether or not to hire more "managers"....

"they are smarter than you think. Come back and tell us how you do. " I happened to ask how YA'LL do!