Deciptive and Crooked.

Hopefully not to many people come about people or even worse business owners like this. Hopefully you did not get to a point investing your own money and never mind time to meet there needs.

I have been lucky enough to be given a heads up from material suppliers and there own customer there are looking to deliver parts to.

What is the best way to kick this guys ass and not get into trouble?

what exactly happened?

Last Thursday I recieved a call referencing a comon business aquaintance. So cool. I aranged a time to meet at my shop. Easy enough request, using sample part drill and ream 26 holes on a 8.500 dia bolt circle and then rotate 90 degrees and drill and tap 1/4-28 tap holes to intersect. Grind flat on pins at 5 degree angle to screw against and support flange that was flexing on the machined part. Ordered supplies from MSC next day, morning delivery dowels and screws. Premium delivery charge ok with customer.
Job recieved on Thursday at 3:00 pm 2/26/09 52 holes 26 reamed on face 26 drill and tapped on intersection for 1/4-28 dowels angle flat ground to locate against set screw and support flange. ect.

Called at 2:30 on Friday next day jobs done. I get a excuse it is positive. Which is, I have more work for you, my machine is broke and yada yada.But I get this feeling, I heard this type of story from the past with smart, sharp dressed and nice car business owners in the pass. I have been played before. "I am a toolmaker slash craftmen" I pay all my bills protect my family but money is just a tool, like a hammer or whatever.

Sorry for the rant. I felt time to network, material supplier said watch out get cash. 60 percent towards agreeing. I have inside connection to who there is. I call, has not deliverered for 6 months and just purchased a 230,000.00 Okuma multiaxis machining center.

I am not a writer and do not have a editor.

I think I have one of those crooks that come around not and then. I will not release tool or part until paid. Is there a good way to set a example also?

Last Thursday I recieved a call referencing a comon business aquaintance. So cool. I aranged a time to meet at my shop. Easy enough request, using sample part drill and ream 26 holes on a 8.500 dia bolt circle and then rotate 90 degrees and drill and tap 1/4-28 tap holes to intersect. Grind flat on pins at 5 degree angle to screw against and support flange that was flexing on the machined part. Ordered supplies from MSC next day, morning delivery dowels and screws. Premium delivery charge ok with customer.
Job recieved on Thursday at 3:00 pm 2/26/09 52 holes 26 reamed on face 26 drill and tapped on intersection for 1/4-28 dowels angle flat ground to locate against set screw and support flange. ect.

Called at 2:30 on Friday next day jobs done. I get a excuse it is positive. Which is, I have more work for you, my machine is broke and yada yada.But I get this feeling, I heard this type of story from the past with smart, sharp dressed and nice car business owners in the pass. I have been played before. "I am a toolmaker slash craftmen" I pay all my bills protect my family but money is just a tool, like a hammer or whatever.

Sorry for the rant. I felt time to network, material supplier said watch out get cash. 60 percent towards agreeing. I have inside connection to who there is. I call, has not deliverered for 6 months and just purchased a 230,000.00 Okuma multiaxis machining center.

I am not a writer and do not have a editor.

I think I have one of those crooks that come around not and then. I will not release tool or part until paid. Is there a good way to set a example also?

i can't really follow what your trying to say

He said he made the part and paid for supplies and the guy said great and he had more work for him but right now he cannot pay him. I dont know if he delivered or not.

chip_maker said:

i can't really follow what your trying to say

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Same here... I have a few questions that might clear things up


The customer didn't pay you, and just said don't worry I have more work for you to do, is that correct?

You got a bad reference form another company regarding this customer?

What does the $230K machining center have to do with your customer?

bentwrench said:

What does the $230K machining center have to do with your customer?

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I'm guessing the customer just spent almost a quarter million on a new machining center, but doesn't pay his subs? I'll take a wild guess that the machining center isn't paid for either.

If he still has work for the guy then he has some leverage. but then again you can't squeeze blood from a stone.

Either I'm hammered, forgot how to read English, or there are some holes in your story making it difficult to follow. However I think we've all lost interest at this point...

I think I get it now, the customer bought the machine and he's using the excuse he can't pay you because he has to pay for the machine.

Is that right?

Sounds like Toolmaker123 Has run into the:
I can't pay for this job unless you do this job, scam.

The client never actually pays for the work. They keep giving you money that you don't deserve, but they feel you should have. They will keep you so busy that you can't keep track of what you are owed. They talk fast,set goals and agree to any price(they ain't gonna pay, anyway), just do it quick. Keep good records and half up front. The day they go to another shop THANK THEM!

We had one of these, when we went to collect he had a .38. He made the mistake of not using it.

the customer has a 6 month old bill with him, cry's poverty yet has enough money to buy a $230,000 okuma.

I think that's what he means.

I've finally come to the conclusion that its not that hard to ask for COD or make the terms you want and it's also not that hard to live with it if they don't agree. I also don't bite into the whole " we'll get you more work " thing anymore. I've figured out a few who say it just to hear their own voice and feel important. Gave a few deals, but never saw the new deal...

By not paying his subs he has enough to pay cash for the VMC, but actually the he got the plane, boat and cabin instead, and the bank has the VMC note.

I finally called the reference. This guy is bad news, cash only. I called a competor of his. I have his reference price, fixture and history of the part. I will have a set of lead shot gloves when the jerk comes around. I going to Obama him.

toolmaker123 said:

I finally called the reference. This guy is bad news, cash only. I called a competor of his. I have his reference price, fixture and history of the part. I will have a set of lead shot gloves when the jerk comes around. I going to Obama him.

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Make sure you get the cash first.

"Obama him" You mean you want to take his money away and give it to someone else.....

I haven't heard "obama him" yet. Interesting, Keep after the SOB. He is what we need to get rid of. Don't elect him to any office!! Use the back channels but put the word out.

toolmaker123 said:

...I have his reference price, fixture and history of the part....

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Do you know where the part is ?
Show up their door if it is close enough.
Did the part go to Mr. NewOkuma's shop or his customer ?
Sounds like you are going to have to make a stink about it to get your money.
No offense meant here, but you don't communicate very well.
Three posts and we still really don't know what the deal is.
It probably won't make you feel better but we all make this mistake occaisionally.
I do it less than I used to, but, I must confess I'm waiting on payment for a small job I just finished for someone I never should have extended credit to.
Some times I repeat my mistakes.
Good luck.

SM