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Do I have a legitimate gripe? Long rant.

Loomis

Aluminum
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Location
Paducah, Ky
I work in a towboat repair facility with a reasonably small machine shop. 5 lathes, BP mill, G&L HBM, 56" VTL, Shaper and various other older machines. I have been doing fab and machine work since 1970. There is a guy in the machine shop that I have complained about for years. He has been there 21 years and I've been there 20. He has not progressed in his abilities since I have known him. I am at work at least 45 min. early every day with a machine running at starting time. He walks into the shop at starting time. Might get started a half hour later. I take my breaks in the machine shop area while he stops 15 min. early and comes back 15 min. late. He made two dowel bolts yesterday - 2 1/2" dia. about 20" long with 1 1/2 threads on each end about 5" long. Took him all day. I could have done it in less than an hour. This is his typical work ethic. It makes my blood pressure rise. The supervisor asks me how to speed him up and I say "Tell him to produce or hit the door." I have told them I don't like working with him the 40 hours I have to and I refuse to work overtime with him because he is even slower then. Yet when they need a machinist to work over they pick him. The only time I am ask is when he is on vacation. I blame management as well as him. I am only a few years from retirement and I hate to leave my job because other than this situation I love the job. I was wondering what some of you managers would do about this.
 
I was wondering what some of you managers would do about this.

Seems kind of irrelevant. We know what your manager will do, and it's not what you want.

Why does it bother you so much? Are you losing money (besides the OT) because of this guy? Does he affect your ability to get your work done?

You sound like a rule guy. You love rules and you expect everyone to follow them. You're passionate about your job and expect everyone to give 110%. You need to understand that being a machinist is just a job for the other guy (and a lot of other folks). He does the minimum to get by and has no intention of changing. It's very likely that he resents you just as much as you resent him.

This guy surely can't be the first of his kind you have come across in 20 year.
 
My Dad told me a story about his Uncle one time....He told me the man quit better jobs than most people will ever have. Most often it was because someone he worked with didnt like him....or he didnt like them .....or any number of such reasons. He finally found a job where he liked everyone they all liked him and everyone got along great.....he made about half the money he was making at the good jobs. What I took away from that talk was the beliefe that I will never quit a good job because I dislike a co-worker or they dis like me. It is my job....it is not who I am. As to his work habits....you can do nothing about them.....and you do not get paid to.
Just my two cents.....although I have to remind myself constantly to not worry about what others get away with....I can only control my actions.
 
After re reading your post......do you expect something extra for being 45 minutes early? I expect my employees to be ready at starting time......if they choose to "hang out" early......I have no intention of rewarding them for it. The thought that always goes through my head with the guys who do that sort of thing is "wow, why in the world would someone waste their free time hanging out here? Go home sleep in, cook breakfast for your wife. Show up 5 or 10 minutes before shift start and be ready to work .
 
After re reading your post......do you expect something extra for being 45 minutes early? I expect my employees to be ready at starting time......if they choose to "hang out" early......I have no intention of rewarding them for it. The thought that always goes through my head with the guys who do that sort of thing is "wow, why in the world would someone waste their free time hanging out here? Go home sleep in, cook breakfast for your wife. Show up 5 or 10 minutes before shift start and be ready to work .


Nothing extra...except RESPECT that they are RESPONSIBLE ADULTS. Would you prefer they be LATE? That is basically the choice you have. When people CONSTANTLY TRY TO CUT IT CLOSE TO GETTING THERE AT START TIME, THEY RUN A GREATER (AND GREATER) RISK OF BEING LATE. Human nature. An employer who doesn't respect RELIABILITY! Good luck when you go out of business!
"Cook breakfast for your wife"? Don't get me started.
 
The thing that bothers the O.P. is that management at his place of employ, clearly has a hatred of MONEY since they hang onto a P.O.S. employee! If a BUSINESS, HATES making money, it is VERY confusing!!!!!!!!!!! When it is in your face everyday, That is a constant source of "WTF?!?!?!?!?" Got it? TRUE, that you should TRY to ignore it, but that is easier said than done!
 
It's not just his laziness that bugs me. Although since he does not give what I think is a full days work for a full days pay that means other people have to take up the slack. They bought him a roll-aroud cart so he could take his tools to the machines. That lasted about a month and now it's piled full of empty welding wire spool and empty TapMagic bottles and is parked in front of the radial arm drill or HBM. He's a hoarder. Hasn't seen the top his toolbox in five years. He likes to tighten down the jaws of the VTL with an impact wrench. Trying to chase threads in the lathe he will try the nut on and when it gets tight he will strike it with a 3lb sledge to work it on or put a 1" impact on it. They ask me to help him layout a couple of bolt circle on a plate last week and I refused. He's been there 21 yrs. fer chrisesakes. When I've tried to educate him on some math he just says "I don't know any thing about that." He has no desire to learn.
 
Resentment is like drinking poison,..... and expecting the other guy to die....

ain't gonna happen...

change the way you feel, it's a lot easier, and good for you too.
 
Loomis, you have all the answers in front of you-----management will not act and he won't change-------try to tune him out and finish your time , retire happy.
Guys like him spend their time planning how to do less, it fits an attitude they get over a perceived issue like , "I give them exactly what they pay for "
It's a game, don't play---------
 
Loomis,

I'd have to go with CalG. Do you have a legitimate gripe? I don't know. Long rant? 'Fraid so. I'm seeing comparing, contrasting, and juxtaposing. You are not alone, because all of us men have desire to know how we stack up in comparison to others (pride of life). It's easy to experience gratification if we can just find someone less effective or more inferior than we are. So, it behooves us to keep those faults in check and continue do what we do best and what we are supposed to do.

ortho
 
I have a problem believing Loomis. I think it is a case of a bitter old man, "few years short of retirement".

I worked with people in an hour or more early. 7:00 Am start, they were there by 5:30. Went to bed at 8:00 PM. Lived to go to work. Don't know if it was a bad homelife, or what.

That is not to say that they were the best Mechanics in the shop.

I think he should, at this point, stop resenting that that SOB with a little more service than he, seems to get away with slacking off. Whether he takes all day to make one piece is only relevant if the profit on that piece covers his wages, and the House's margin.

That is kind of asking, do you get any incentive? Do more work, get more pay? I have only worked one job, of the 3 I have had over a 40 year career, that did not "pay for play", incentive, the more I did, the more I got. If you do not, and you work your ass off, and he doesn't, I would probably prefer you, but I would probably think you dumber than him. He earns his day's pay. You give them more than they pay for. For a working man, that is not smart. For a "bidnessman", that is the kind you look for.

George
 
Does he have a relative in management?


Rex


You would think so! Really sad thing is I have a similar situation. I know it isn't a relative (kin) connection that keeps this guy there, so I have to wonder what kinda "blackmail" this particular loser that I work with, has over mgmt! It is insane!
 
Just put in your time and make it to retirement. It's not worth getting all pissed off.

You must not have ever had training in old guy machinist thats about to retire work ethic:

A guy your age that's about to retire is supposed to take pre break, break and post break. You should easily be burning 45 minutes total. 1 or 2 hours isn't unreasonable if you get to telling a mind numbing old machinist story that you've already told a ton of times.

After break when you "get back to work" you should stand there with a tool in your hand and act like you're talking about a job or reading a print. You want to do that for about 30 minutes.

Then sort of work for about 45 minutes. This is your only chance in the day to get enough work done so they don't fire you for getting absolutely nothing done. Act like you're doing work that no one else can do right.

Then go take a crap in the bathroom for about 30 minutes.

Then it should be pre lunch time. You can't expect to go back to work with only 15 minutes until lunch.

Lunch is however long it takes to eat and tell at least five terrible stories that all run together and make no sense.

Then post lunch is where you realize the coffee maker is low and you have to spend 20 minutes getting a new pot going. Complain the whole time that some somebitch didn't start a new pot even though it was half full.

Then post post lunch you drink your coffee and sort of make your way back out to the shop.

Then it's time to walk over to anyone in the shop thats working and start talking non stop about absolutely nothing. Burn up a good 45 minutes.

Then go to the bathroom again since you just drank all that coffee

Then go refill your coffee

Then take pre break, break and post break.

Now theres not much time left in the day so get your area all cleaned up and act like you're really great for doing it. Great worker. Everyone else is a lazy slob.

Time to go home.
 
I gave gmatov a "like" in post #13 as this is one of those times I'd like to hear both sides of the story. I'm also agreeing with Heavey Metal as, after 20 years, it's a bit late to start griping.

Loomis I'm having a hard time imagining "the perfect worker" to "Mr. Lazy bastard" being tolerated for 20 years. What is it that's sparked off your rant?

If you enjoy what you do why not just keep doing as you've always done and forget the other guy as it's obvious things won't change.

Don't retire bitter!

Gordon
 
It's not just his laziness that bugs me. Although since he does not give what I think is a full days work for a full days pay that means other people have to take up the slack. They bought him a roll-aroud cart so he could take his tools to the machines. That lasted about a month and now it's piled full of empty welding wire spool and empty TapMagic bottles and is parked in front of the radial arm drill or HBM. He's a hoarder. Hasn't seen the top his toolbox in five years. He likes to tighten down the jaws of the VTL with an impact wrench. Trying to chase threads in the lathe he will try the nut on and when it gets tight he will strike it with a 3lb sledge to work it on or put a 1" impact on it. They ask me to help him layout a couple of bolt circle on a plate last week and I refused. He's been there 21 yrs. fer chrisesakes. When I've tried to educate him on some math he just says "I don't know any thing about that." He has no desire to learn.

Loomis; You are expecting everone else to be just like you and that is your problem. I have worked with the same kind of people that you describe.
You need to realize all people are different and you need to realize this. Personally I think being at work 45 min early is rediculous. I showed up for work 5 or 10 min early, got my coffee and started work promptly at 7;00. Did it the same way til I retired.

You are lucky you are not working with a abusive drunk like I did
Jim
 
My stress level dropped when I quit carrying about other peoples' behaviours that didn't effect me. It effects your employer, so let him worry about it. My father went through a stage soon after retirement where he got all worked up about petty shit that didn't effect him. Someone in the next line over at the grocery had more than 10 items? He'd have to say something. It got so I didn't even want to be around him, especially in public, because he was constantly finding things to get offended about. Everything everyone else did seemed to be a personal affront to him. I was glad when he got over it.
 
Loomis,

I have worked with individuals who have been completely useless and still rewarded handsomely by management and even promoted. I have seen this on many occasions and have been totally unable to rationalise what management were thinking.

Not only have they been useless but on some occasions they could be only described politely as character disordered / narcissist / Asperger's syndrome at best as well. These observations were not only made by myself but others too, so with at least some degree of objectivity, it was not my own biased opinion. Next time I see it happen, I will be tempted to ask management what was going through their mind and can't they see what everyone else can.

Do you have a legitimate gripe? Well you do have a problem but if anyone has a gripe. it is those paying his wages. I imagine your problem is much like my own, comprehending management's response to this individual. Be thankful he hasn't been promoted and you now have to report to him as has happened to me.

What I have come to realise is that you mustn't let it compromise your own position. If management are happy for him to take all day to make 2 bolts then it shouldn't bother you. I'm guessing you aren't rewarded any better than him even though you work harder, which would be another source of frustration for me.

Really the problem you have is with management not this individual. And complaining to management about management never gets anyone very far. What can be inferred from your description here is that management do not seem to value your efforts over his so you really need to question if it's worth putting in extra effort. I'm not suggesting you slack off to his degree as no doubt you take some pride in your work, just do what is asked of you well.

I do feel refusing to help him out and work with him on overtime may make it seem to management that you are part of the problem and this may be why he gets offered the OT and not you. - Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying you are the problem, just how management may perceive it.

Also, I am not suggesting you help him out either but perhaps a better response, when asked to layout bolt circles etc. for him, would be to take over the whole job as no doubt it would be easier. Just make sure management know as you don't want him taking credit for your work and don't take up his slack by coming in early etc. If helping him out pushes back your deliverables then so be it. You will only have to say couple a of times to management, "Well of course my job took longer than expected because you asked me do his job as well" and they'll start to realise where the problem really is and perhaps you will get the OT and not him.

Best of luck and don't let the bastards get you down.
 
I was like you , always keen to get on with the job doing extra than needed while others (one in particular) did the minimum, difference was I was a young man starting out and made the decision to start my own shop ,putting the time and effort into my own future instead of someone elses.If your'e near retirement you have to bide your time and perhaps take up other interests to focus on.
 








 
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