Do U Allow Chairs in your CNC shop?
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    Default Do U Allow Chairs in your CNC shop?

    So....long story short....new-ish manager above me decides everyone sits on their ass too much, and REMOVED ALL CHAIRS from the shop, whether it was an oxblood wingback from 1940, or a simple shop stool with wooden seat.

    of course, that really pissed off all my guys (im plant manager and my bosses sometimes break chain of command when they want changes in the shop that i disagree with or move too slowly). Problem IS: operators are refusing to work overtime, complaining they can't stand for another 8/10 hrs per day. Some of that is retalitory, but honestly i don't mind if guys sit at their workbench while machine runs and after they have miscellaneous duties completed, especially after busting their asses the day/week/hours before. Chairs aren't the only thing making them unhappy, but it's #2 on the list besides $$$.

    There are many other issues involved, but i am a player's coach, and i think that production can remain high while operators can recoup and recharge after setting up two or more machines and hitting cycle start. i believe that morale is higher when your knees and back aren't screaming at you on the ride home or to work.

    Anyway, DOES YOUR SHOP HAVE CHAIRS? STOOLS? RECLINERS? Did they get banned? IS That NORMAL? I asked to allow operators to earn them back, and i'll do more policing if it's abused. For now, boss wants to keep chairs off the shop floor for the foreseeable future. I recommended 'stand-up' desks for the office personnel, and they thought i was joking. I see the pros and cons of both opinions, not sure if i should see how it turns out for awhile, OR, just buy some stools for guys who've earned it and set the bar high. Many of these guys are pushing retirement and a stool or workbench chair is humane i guess. Holy crap, am i corporate now? What has become of us?

    I've worked in both types of shops, ones where you run 10 miles per day and don't have time to sit, and others where if your machine is running, you are working. Problem is, i've been here too long and i'd like to know what other shop policy is. WHAT IS YOUR SHOP POLICY REGARDING STOOLS/CHAIRS?

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    day shift is all millennials, with millennial manager. They get stools at machines. Total of 6 operators today. I have carefully removed stools from two machines and doubled all of day shift production in less than 4 hours. The other second shifter is off for week, so I can not run machines at 11 when I run 2 at once. You can not sit when running a machine, button pushing sure, watching youtube videos while you wait for magic material handling fairies is a good time for stools at machines too. Even on big beams or beams with lots of holes, by the time you stand, push stool out of way to check something it becomes net wasted energy.
    Or old shop foreman would blow a lid for sitting a machine- and once you see the difference you know why.

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    removing all chairs because of that reason is quite short sighted, human bodies are quite diverse besides the obvious, and some may absolutely NEED to sit to give some rest to the legs, I used to be somewhat serious about sports when I was younger, and I'm still fit at 40, but some of those sporting activities have left damage, knees in particular aren't what they used to be, and if I have a 10-12h day all day standing/walking, then there is a very noticeable discomfort at the end of the day, signs of inflammation in knee joints, and if I had someone new and young above decide to remove all chairs from the floor, then that would be the day I would resign, it is as simple as that - I'm quite sure other dumb decisions from that manager would follow shortly

    there might be other reasons for such a decision than just being plain ignorant, still, IMO - very wrong thing to do to your people

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    yeah i get it. However im a firm believer that you Cant Teach Hustle, you can only Motivate it.
    Our top operators aren't sitting regardless.

    Our gross output went down since less operators want to stay OT; efficiency rates look the same but need longer data period.

    What i'm OK with is... hopping on a stool when you are changing a 20 insert face mill for example. Or writing a paragraph in the maintenance log. OR, deburring small parts after a run and machines are restarted.

    Our breakroom is half a mile away(jk), so moving it closer might be Step 1.

    I could see where some guys could be More productive WITH a stool at their machine; they might push harder if they know there's relief close by for a quick break and they can get their feet off the concrete for a second. A bunch of mini breaks rather than one long one. It might too imply that you care about their health and well being.

    Conversely, No stools and some guys might be less productive and take long ass bathroom breaks, and/or stay in the lunchroom too long. Here, most guys ate lunch at their machines during while machines ran, and now they actually started taking their full lunchbreak and 2 15min breaks which most didnt' know existed before seats were removed.

    My problem now is that i really do think these guys (some) are more tired at the end of the day and end of week. Definitely more burned out overall. Yeah i know, suck it up punks, but im talking the old heads and granny chasers.

    Problem is...if you DO choose workbench seating in a production shop, you better darn be able to police it.
    However, if I do have to police and babysit too much, then those guys aren't workers we want anyway. That's the way i see it.

    MBA types demand standing and moving around 100% of the day, but they sit at desks all day. Not sure there's a right answer

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    The option to sit when not busy i would think be a benefit and allow working longer hours, if your not within button pushing distance it would be another matter.
    But you have pissed off your workers and the problems that arise from that are yours to own, such as people leaving, harder to hire help, no give on the operators demands.
    A word comes to mind to describe the act but will not post it. Why are you posting anyway? think about it for a minute.

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    Yeah, new manager sounds like a real horse's ass. Yea shall reap what yea have sown. Absolutely why I work for myself and and not some self entitled jackass. Been there, got the shirt.

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    We have stools for everyone and an old roll around office chair for our 72 year old guy. Most of the time they are not used but they are there when needed. More often than not people use them as a table for a coffee cup or water bottle. Tell the plant manager that he should go cross train on the shop floor for a week so he can come up with some more good ideas - he will either learn how hard the guys work or find out you really can get rid of a body in the chip dumpsters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Street View Post
    But you have pissed off your workers and the problems that arise from that are yours to own, such as people leaving, harder to hire help, no give on the operators demands.
    There are two sides to every coin.

    Ever think it's the other way around? That the workers have pissed off the manager?

    There are certain things that will always be abused...Bathroom breaks, cell phones, chairs, sick days, etc.

    At some point the manager allowed chairs...What changed? Possible it was the behavior of the employees?

    When some are allowed an inch, over time that inch can grow into a foot. Abuse of such luxuries may happen incrementally, until one day the manager says enough.

    I agree that having happy employees is good for business, but it works the other way around as well.

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    I would walk right out the door and tell management to jam it on the way out.

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    no chairs or stools many will say nothing. they will just start looking for a job some where else.
    .
    obviously can sit on floor or a 5 gallon plastic bucket but most will just start looking for job some where else. i would expect people to start quitting after weeks to months. normal to take 1 or 2 months to get job offers and maybe a 3rd month to finally start work at another company.

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    There's a $500 Herman Miller Aeron chair at every work station.

    Not saying some don't abuse it. But the hard workers work harder, and appreciate it, and the slackers would slack regardless.

    If management took away chairs, management would have no more employees. Period.

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    many shop chairs are what the office throws away when the office gets new chairs. .
    .
    not many complain the office people have too many chairs or are too comfortable sitting in their chairs

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    no chairs or stools many will say nothing. they will just start looking for a job some where else.
    .
    obviously can sit on floor or a 5 gallon plastic bucket but most will just start looking for job some where else. i would expect people to start quitting after weeks to months. normal to take 1 or 2 months to get job offers and maybe a 3rd month to finally start work at another company.
    Exactly what I would do, a month later you would have my notice and no further information regarding why.
    Last edited by Rewt; 09-20-2019 at 09:07 AM. Reason: can't spell or proofread for shit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rewt View Post
    Exactly what I would do, a month later you would have my notice and no further information regarding why.
    Decent size aerospace and DOD shop here. We allow chairs with no arms. Think stool with a back and no arm rests.

    Our only real rule is to be productive and we incentivize that rule with profit sharing based on hours work, minus scrap rate and other variables. Machines sitting bring down the entire teams productivity and that reflects in their monthly bonus'. Machines don't sit blinking, material is always there, everyone helps eachother. Cellphones are allowed and can use a vlan guest wifi as long as they are productive.

    That said I pay my workers very well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Paine View Post
    So....long story short....new-ish manager above me decides everyone sits on their ass too much, and REMOVED ALL CHAIRS from the shop, whether it was an oxblood wingback from 1940, or a simple shop stool with wooden seat.
    Now tell him to go do the same to accounting, HR, quality, and the engineering department. I never have understood this mentality of the workers on the floor being forced to stand 100% of the time.

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    Did they take all of the chairs out of the offices too?

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    Couch and big screen TV in the shop...

    No need to go home the Thursday before the Daytona 500
    to catch the twin 125s, just watch them at the shop.
    (now they run them under the lights, but it used to be
    an issue)

    Working Sunday, no big deal, put the football game on.



    Shop I used to run, we somehow ended up with a bunch of
    recliners floating around in the shop..

    Sometimes you just need to kick back for a few..

    And working... Studying a print or doing delicate hand work
    or deburring, much easier to do if you are sitting down..

    Eliminating all things you can sit on in the shop..
    That screams "Power and Control" freak to me.. That
    Manager probably won't last long. Probably one of the
    idiots that makes the office girls sign out paperclips.


    The "Shop Couch"... Its not just for me.

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    A suit coming in and deciding people are "sitting too much... take away the chairs" is a childish management move.

    All the shops I've been too have chairs. I've had guys complain that tools were not close enough to their bench or machine and they didn't want to walk 10 feet to pick something up, but I wouldn't take away the chair. If he's getting work done on time, who care's where his butt is??? If he's not, I GUARENTEE that putting him on his feet isn't going to fix whatever his problem is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    Eliminating all things you can sit on in the shop..
    That screams "Power and Control" freak to me.. That
    Manager probably won't last long. Probably one of the
    idiots that makes the office girls sign out paperclips.
    Yup.

    As far as actually using chairs, I think it depends a lot on the shop and what you're making.

    I've had one job that required nearly everyone working in the plant to stand for hours. Wouldn't work in a similar environment again (but luckily I don't have to).

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    I would hope anyone who is abusing the ability to sit in a chair would be fired anyway. I sit when I can. Why not?

    If a machine is waiting and I can't haul my ass out of my chair to be ready when the machine is I shouldn't have a job.

    Maybe the new management will wait a little while before chaining you to the machine but that's the next logical step.

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