Thread: Do U Allow Chairs in your CNC shop?

Originally Posted by cnc_machinist

You and I would not get along. At all. I do top notch work. But. I HATE attitudes like this.

Good to know, and agreed.

This is a case of throwing gasoline directly onto the fire. There can be a number of "depends" in a shop environment. Most of my years were in tool rooms, either building or repairing tooling on manual machine tools. In that situation, you stand most of the day. When I became involved with cad-cam sitting did no harm.
Many shops have a definite cultural war between the carpet crawlers, and the chip crawlers. That usually grows from poor management. When the person in charge declares war on chairs, he should sign and post that declaration on the town square. The declaration should be a total house cleaning, which would include all furniture items designed to produce butt contact.
Another subject that can cause great grief are shop radios. There are fewer reasons for distracting music, than for a butt perch.

Originally Posted by Chip Burns

This is a case of throwing gasoline directly onto the fire. There can be a number of "depends" in a shop environment. Most of my years were in tool rooms, either building or repairing tooling on manual machine tools. In that situation, you stand most of the day. When I became involved with cad-cam sitting did no harm.
Many shops have a definite cultural war between the carpet crawlers, and the chip crawlers. That usually grows from poor management. When the person in charge declares war on chairs, he should sign and post that declaration on the town square. The declaration should be a total house cleaning, which would include all furniture items designed to produce butt contact.
Another subject that can cause great grief are shop radios. There are fewer reasons for distracting music, than for a butt perch.

With radio's, I think it depends on the overall noise level of the shop, which can change a lot and therefore be another annoying topic of controversy. The easy and safest solution is to ban all radios, but in my experience people are happier and work better with something to listen too. The other solution of everyone having their own radio leads to a lot of confusing noise and potentially dangerous apathy to what's going on around you. The best compromise IMO is only allowing one radio that the boss controls.

In our shop, the shipping/parts dept, machine shop, and service/assembly shop are all in one big space, but are divided into different areas. So we have one radio amp that services the whole space and we use Pandora with station's shuffling across our broad tastes in music (oldies, country, 90's rock, 70's rock, club electronica....). It actually works pretty well for us. It gets touchy when ONE person decides that they've had enough of Roger Miller and wants it off the list. As long as everyone treats it like a "radio" and not a personal DJ, everyone is happy. One radio means the boss can control volume, and it's a lot easier to tell the difference between someone screaming across the shop from the radio when there's only one radio. If the mills are super loud today, well then you just can't hear your music till they are done. It's a perk to keep moral up, not a right.

I'm personally against headphones in all cases though. Hearing protection might be necessary, but isolating yourself from those around you with your Ipod is dangerous IMO.

I just bought a set of these for my chair at the shop.. So much better than the
half crunched crappy plastic ones that came with the chair.. Rolls so nice and
smooth. Now I can just kick myself around the shop and will never have to stand up.

Set of 5 Office Chair Caster Rubber Swivel Wheels Replacement Heavy Duty 3 inch 862463000306 | eBay

Remove all the office chairs let them stand up all day see how much gets done there

Agreed. In one shop, there were a lot of women operating punches. One faction likes C&W, the other wanted Rock. After a half dozen trips to the office to change the receiver selection by each group, I walked in and turned it to a local elevator/Drs.' office music station, which everyone hated. An instant agreement. "Get the S.O.B. outta here.
Sadly, in today's world many people do not have true work experience. Fortunately I grew up on a farm, where Grampa started each directive "Jesus Christ, or God-damn it" He once told my brother and I to shut up and listen up. This issue about the chairs is much like many things in our world. We have convicted murderers that no one has the guts to hang or shoot. Build them a new hotel to keep us safe, and disarm the general populace.

Originally Posted by Chip Burns

Agreed. In one shop, there were a lot of women operating punches. One faction likes C&W, the other wanted Rock. After a half dozen trips to the office to change the receiver selection by each group, I walked in and turned it to a local elevator/Drs.' office music station, which everyone hated. An instant agreement. "Get the S.O.B. outta here.
Sadly, in today's world many people do not have true work experience. Fortunately I grew up on a farm, where Grampa started each directive "Jesus Christ, or God-damn it" He once told my brother and I to shut up and listen up. This issue about the chairs is much like many things in our world. We have convicted murderers that no one has the guts to hang or shoot. Build them a new hotel to keep us safe, and disarm the general populace.

OK, Boomer.

Originally Posted by CarbideBob

Some of this must matter to work done and cycle time.
If sitting in your chair you are programming the next op then not so bad and maybe very good.
If running parts that sit down/ step up takes something.
Maybe very little, on fast cycles maybe a lot.
My slow stuff is 60-600 seconds.
I will haul the chair out of my office on occasion with the long ones.
My computer system is brutal and will always show me that I loose time by doing so.
What I should have done in 4 hours now takes me 4 1/2 or 5.
I work to have all tools, guages, and other within two steps of the operator as each footstep counts.
Chairs not only get in the way but blow the concept out the window.

Many people will get up out of the chair and be at the door before the machine stops but let's face it, if you have a chair often you will not get up until the door is already open.

B-port operators never sat down. Is this a cnc/cell phone/computer thing?
Bob

OK, in my defense, I am getting old (and lazy) so I started to re-read this thread to see what I have posted and said eff it!

Bob, I have myself, and have seen Bport guys in a chair/stool... you know, cranking out that 20" long slot with a 1/2" corncob mill where you patiently dial in the X axis for minutes/hours etc. If you have a proper height stool it is not an issue, and great leg saver for when you are standing at the radial all day the next day.

Also seen alot of stools at surface grinders.. why is it they are just the right height for a person that is 5' tall??? Maybe 'cuz people were shorter when they were invented..? I dunno...

All of that said, we have WAY too many chairs at current shop IMO. Seems like very time I need to go do something (setup, tweak, whatever) on machine I need to kick a chair out of the way.

Originally Posted by Mike1974

Also seen alot of stools at surface grinders.. why is it they are just the right height for a person that is 5' tall??? Maybe 'cuz people were shorter when they were invented..? I dunno...

All of that said, we have WAY too many chairs at current shop IMO. Seems like very time I need to go do something (setup, tweak, whatever) on machine I need to kick a chair out of the way.

I'm tall and find one of these from Lyon to be pretty handy



And yes, too many stools can be a problem, they catch clutter just like workbenches.

I've been following this thread for a while, and the memories of my apprenticeship come flooding back.

The 5' south african German (one of the best toolmakers I've met) screaming at me "if you want to sit, you work in an office!!" While he smoked his 8" long Gauloises with a fully formed ash hanging off the end....
Meanwhile, running a 16' radial arm drilling 48" deep 7/16" dia water lines for the previous 2 weeks. Talk about a shoulder workout.

At the time, I was polishing a 16 cavity (large) medical tool. I was deep into week 5-6 at the time and decided a bare metal stool would be nice (aside from my hank hill ass), instead of half cocking myself over.
Everything is made for dwarfs you see. At 6'4 regular workbenches are a terror to me.

At the same time, it was uncommon to see Gunter NOT parked atop a similarly unpadded stool while running the Bridgeport whilst cutting runners, or drill\ream for sucker pins.
Gunter would proudly perch atop his stool while programming and touching off tools for the Agie Mondo... while puffing away at his 8" long Gauloises...

I learned a lot from Gunter. He's a wonderful man. He also taught me that sitting your ass down once youre "the man" is OK.

I sit a lot now (Im the man only because I work for myself). The midget machines in my shop are up on 6" risers.
Machines that I cant put up have a sit\stand stool like Mud suggests.
Workbenches still suck.

Too many years of lifting 200lb plates 'cause it faster than the bloody cane. Too many years of half bent over cause its faster. Too many years of underpaid bullshit.
If I went to work for anyone that "felt" sitting was effecting my performance, I'd probably perform myself straight out the door.

Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke

You've got me wondering how often something "went wrong" for you.

I've always found that when something "goes wrong" the most important thing is how fast I react. I can still catch a dropped pencil (with my hand above and someone dropping) before it hits the floor. Surprises the hell out of most when I do it

I've seen a few " gone wrongs " in my time. Mainly when I was young and foolish. I was a fitter so most of the time I would be either stood up, knelt down or occasionally laying on the floor.

I think there is a place for stools on some machining jobs but personally I liked to be able jump out of the way, sometimes things go wrong in spite of your best efforts.

One place I worked at guys on long cuts, roll turning or planing large flat surfaces etc used to lay back in arm chairs. I have known a couple fall asleep after a liquid lunch in the pub. Some blokes went everyday to the pub for dinner.

When I first met Mrs Shoelaces in 1990 she would always go to the pub on a Friday with her teaching colleagues for a pint and a pie on Friday lunches and then go back to teaching class ! It was a tradition for them.

All in the past now though. Hardly anyone working in my neck of the woods drinks at lunch time. Another reason why there has been a massive decline in pubs around were I live. Over 2/3rds have shut in the last twenty years and believe me that is a lot of pubs.


Regards Tyrone

Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke

You've got me wondering how often something "went wrong" for you.

I've always found that when something "goes wrong" the most important thing is how fast I react. I can still catch a dropped pencil (with my hand above and someone dropping) before it hits the floor. Surprises the hell out of most when I do it

I've seen a few " gone wrongs " in my time. Mainly when I was young and foolish. I was a fitter so most of the time I would be either stood up, knelt down or occasionally laying on the floor.

I think there is a place for stools on some machining jobs but personally I liked to be able jump out of the way, sometimes things go wrong in spite of your best efforts.

One place I worked at guys on long cuts, roll turning or planing large flat surfaces etc used to lay back in arm chairs. I have known a couple fall asleep after a liquid lunch in the pub. Some blokes went everyday to the pub for dinner.

When I first met Mrs Shoelaces in 1990 she would always go to the pub on a Friday with her teaching colleagues for a pint and a pie on Friday lunches and then go back to teaching class ! It was a tradition for them.

All in the past now though. Hardly anyone working in my neck of the woods drinks at lunch time. Another reason why there has been a massive decline in pubs around were I live. Over 2/3rds have shut in the last twenty years and believe me that is a lot of pubs. We're talking over a hundred in my town alone.


Regards Tyrone

Originally Posted by Bobw

I just bought a set of these for my chair at the shop.. So much better than the
half crunched crappy plastic ones that came with the chair.. Rolls so nice and
smooth. Now I can just kick myself around the shop and will never have to stand up.

Set of 5 Office Chair Caster Rubber Swivel Wheels Replacement Heavy Duty 3 inch 862463000306 | eBay

...and here I thought you'd have gone with these and a pair of dewalt drills coupled to them...
6" Douglas Q+ Aluminum Wheel | 6766** | Douglas Wheel 746-06 | BMI Karts And Parts

Originally Posted by digger doug

...and here I thought you'd have gone with these and a pair of dewalt drills coupled to them...
6" Douglas Q+ Aluminum Wheel | 6766** | Douglas Wheel 746-06 | BMI Karts And Parts

This chair was pissing me off so much.. Wouldn't roll, wouldn't move, one wheel was so crunched that the chair leaned to the side..

I was making a mental checklist of materials and bearings on hand, and working up a plan to make the world's most awesome office chair wheels... And then I realized that every office chair I've ever owned has had knackered wheels. So I couldn't be the only person on the planet with the problem. 2 second e-bay search later, and I had my answer.. $16 with free shipping..

They are roller blade wheels. Best office equipment investment I've ever made.

Originally Posted by CarbideBob

If you have time to lean you have time to clean and that job is never done.
If your job was digging ditches would a chair be an expected part of the deal?
You are better than a ditch digger and expect some sit down perks? Soon you will want a nice AC office and not have to get your hands dirty.
If you do not like your job go become a bank teller.... oh wait they don't have chairs either. McDs not much sitting... Go work on wall street.
It is an active job and your boss may be right.
Bob

Ditch diggers these days run excavators.

Usually air conditioned.

The ladies at my bank all have stools or chairs too. Imagine that....

You want a crew of monkeys, hire a crew of monkeys. Me, I hire a ditch digger because I want a ditch, now, not later, and certainly not a chorus line of coordinated shoveling.

Any job that can be done as efficiently sitting as standing, gets done sitting. Deburring, paperwork, programming, ordering materials, etc.

Ya gotta be a couple kinds of stupid to make things worse than they need to be.

Slacking off, not being productive, those are different things. Things a Leader would probably deal with. But likely not so much, a manager.

Originally Posted by Trueturning

He needs safety glasses yet the long sleeves are a trade off he is well aware of them and will not get tangled the sleeves keep the hot chips from settling on his arms and burning the heck out of them. His machine is under control.

Towel around his neck means it is hot. Most today do not have to run what looks like a manual machine and usually have air conditioned shops. Most today do not belong on these manuals without training it is not as easy as it looks.

It would be better not to sit on the machine but he does not have a chair.

Or it's a scarf because the shop owner is too tight a cunt to seal his building and heat it.

Last lathe I saw delivered that was close enough to that size, came with an operators seat on the Carriage.

Originally Posted by Trueturning

Think about how he has to move to control the machine. His leg cuffs are going to be away from any moving machine so the chance of him getting dragged in due to that is much less. Now with his arms there is a much better chance that he can be injured. I often wonder the injuries manual vs CNC machines. My view is that manual is much more dangerous as far as injury is concerned.

He just changed a insert and picked back up on the cut. See the ways and how the grease on it stops on a straight line. So he might have missed it for that time or been called somewhere else.

Man, you sure do read a lot in to incomplete information.

You should not volunteer to be a witness in favor of anyone you actually like, if ever asked.

All I will tell you based on the picture, is that the carriage went that far and stopped at some point. Maybe the last cut, maybe the last job, maybe...some other time.