Do U Allow Chairs in your CNC shop? - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Paine View Post
    ..im a firm believer that you Cant Teach Hustle, you can only Motivate it.
    These are words to live by if you're coaching HS football I suppose. I prefer finding ways to work smarter not harder especially the older I get. Young people need to demonstrate hustle because they really don't have anything else to offer yet. Once they develop some expertise, this should taper off. If not, it becomes toxic to those around them. Expecting some old timer to show hustle sounds completely stupid. And not offering him a stool to help him cope with knee/back issues suffered from decades of service sounds like age discrimination.

    So you want all your smart, more experienced talent to leave and be left with the young, dumb ones (who happen to not have knee and back issues)? Then you can be one of those "good places to get started" where it kinda sucks to work, but you get a couple years of experience and leave.

    I've done the standing desk thing for years due to a back injury. There is some benefit, but if you don't have a place to sit and take a break, it's killer on your body.

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Some of this must matter to work done and cycle time.
    If sitting in your chair you are programming the next op then not so bad and maybe very good.
    If running parts that sit down/ step up takes something.
    Maybe very little, on fast cycles maybe a lot.
    My slow stuff is 60-600 seconds.
    I will haul the chair out of my office on occasion with the long ones.
    My computer system is brutal and will always show me that I loose time by doing so.
    What I should have done in 4 hours now takes me 4 1/2 or 5.
    I work to have all tools, guages, and other within two steps of the operator as each footstep counts.
    Chairs not only get in the way but blow the concept out the window.

    Many people will get up out of the chair and be at the door before the machine stops but let's face it, if you have a chair often you will not get up until the door is already open.

    B-port operators never sat down. Is this a cnc/cell phone/computer thing?
    Bob
    It can happen. Not all that often yet it can. The interesting thing is that when I had only manual to run no one complained when you sat down with a long cut going. I have seen Ol timers and young sit down and drill holes in material from time to time.

    For the amount of work a Bridgeport and a Milwaukee Horizontal manual mill we would sit down on a long facing cut or a slotting op close anD right up on the machine. That is how I learned and so a CNC when I met my first I still stayed close and watched the machine close.

    Only one shop I know where they do not allow chairs. The work tables are very much higher yet still people take a chance rarely to hop up there and sit a while. 12 hour days standing without much time off of one’s feet is a lot.

    It is not worth it to me because I have done way too much like that to my body that the body will tell me quick what I need to do.

  4. #63
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    Retired now. 45 years in. I have worked in both kinds of shops. I could set up, run, do fixtures, and program. My last 11 years in the trade would have ended in a day if I could not sit and rest. Saw horses for material pallets so not to have to bend over and get down to material. I always exceed to others in cleanliness and organization. I could make the Mills walk, talk, and sing and dance and every employer saw that and made accommodations. Best thing in shops now is ban cell-phones....

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  6. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    .....

    It is not worth it to me because I have done way too much like that to my body that the body will tell me quick what I need to do.
    You do not need to say much more to define yourself as a slacker.
    Can't play...., go find another game. Sit down on the porch and let the big dogs run where you can not.
    Are you going to give me the old whine that I've done this and now my life should be easy because I put my time in?
    Sorry, but when you can't run with the new kids you are obsolete.
    Bob

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    Robert sure is busy in this h'yah thread I tell yuh!





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    Breakin' the Law
    Ox

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    I like to poke and light up things..... Note taken. Yes, that was a bit much and overboard but that makes for debates.
    I apologize but still want to light a flame or thinking.
    I have no disrespect for Trueturning and that was not intended, it was a stick poke or sword swipe and I expect the same back.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    You do not need to say much more to define yourself as a slacker.
    Can't play...., go find another game. Sit down on the porch and let the big dogs run where you can not.
    Are you going to give me the old whine that I've done this and now my life should be easy because I put my time in?
    Sorry, but when you can't run with the new kids you are obsolete.
    Bob
    Yeah that is what I experienced. I was paid for it. Thing is people like you are shown up by the no chair type of mentality. It goes further than that.

    How you say what you do tells me that you are very good at blowing smoke on the young people who enter the trade people which you care only to load part push green button.

    I am not the only one who has experienced these kinds of just human failings.you say I am done for and obsolete. Just shows where you are at on the dirtbag scale. Anyone who works for this man you have to make him treat you right or even humanely. Once you do get that don’t slip because his knife is in your back. He has no friends in the shop because he believes that is not the social order of things. He will not even give a street person five dollars.

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  13. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    I like to poke and light up things..... Note taken. Yes, that was a bit much and overboard but that makes for debates.
    I apologize but still want to light a flame.
    Bob

    Oh - you're fine.
    Just noting that I see your poker is pretty sharp this weekend is all....




    ----

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    I know people from your town. Since you lasted so long you are very likely a cut throat to talk like you do. You regurgitate everything you have consumed all of these years.

    You keep doing that. Life will catch you. As for me you did not accurately define me anymore than you can the man who decides to work for you. How they live is another means for you to manipulate them by doing to them what you would never allow done to yourself. You also are very likely behind a lot of social ills of the much younger workers you need. That is the Milinials. You need them yet also I will bet you constantly deride and degrade them. You will welcome automation and the continued coddling you have enjoyed all of these years because you will not have as many people around to exploit.

    Now see I don’t even know you nor you me. Ridiculous to take part in this really. Your narrative as many of your post lack honesty and has a lot of projection and magical thinking. Perhaps you are a sociopath I don’t know.

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    I do not want low chairs out on the floor. Sitting on low chairs puts people at ey level with cutting tools and work.

    For that reason I got rid of all the short stools and chairs replacing with taller Bar "like" stools and chairs. There is or was one by most machine. Use'm don't use'm just keep machines fed, parts checked and debur if needed. No hard and fast rules as jobs change often.

    As far as standing...some jobs you just kinda have to...others not so much ,I leave it up to whose running the job to decide. But I had one guy fall alseep sound on a machine with a long several minute cycle time. He was supposed to be checking last part...prepping the next. He was half leaning sitting with his face up against the glass. machine being right outside my office I knew it hadn't ran in some time. being on the phone I just heard hydraulics running and running?..no spindle. I get off phone open door...hes's got drool down the window.
    I did what any good boss would do...called over the company loudmouth... who grabbed a few guys then yelled his name.


    Also found same guy a week earlier leaning up against a wall when he was supposed to be deburring parts on the belt sander in front of him...Oh he was leaning and sound asleep standing.


    He didn't last too long

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    I think Bob was on the board for the Flint Water Werks a few yrs ago too.
    I'd try to edit that in your rant somewhere.....


    ------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    I like to poke and light up things..... Note taken. Yes, that was a bit much and overboard but that makes for debates.
    I apologize but still want to light a flame or thinking.
    I have no disrespect for Trueturning and that was not intended, it was a stick poke or sword swipe and I expect the same back.
    Bob
    Carbide expert stick to that.

    No out of the blue like that is uncalled for and that is just satisfying to you because you are this kind of man. The people close to my age like me worked numerous 12 hour days over sixty hour weeks and we actually did what persons like you did not know how to do because y’all are not on the floor working much.

    Those same people were friends of mine who after having their stroke, their Heart attack and their bum back suffered for it both in poor healthcare and just the aftermath of having that. Fact is we live and our bodies decline and one day we all die. You too will notice that when it effects you.

    You are the kind of fellow who tells twenty guys to clean the shop and mop the floors and only have one mop and bucket. Also you are the cheap guy underbidding jobs and blaming your Machinists. As a cheap and stupid fellow you become a slave driver type who will tell me that I and my friends are obsolete. Is that supposed to endure yourself to your employees my Furer?

    You are a piece of work. Hope your automation maintains itself you are better off alone marveling at yourself in the mirror.

    I have made guys like you rich except I liked those guys I do not like you as you are a cruel person.

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  22. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    I like to poke and light up things..... Note taken. Yes, that was a bit much and overboard but that makes for debates.
    I apologize but still want to light a flame or thinking.
    I have no disrespect for Trueturning and that was not intended, it was a stick poke or sword swipe and I expect the same back.
    Bob

    Are not you the same one that stated you refuse hiring people you consider "overwieght" ?

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    I don't really have anything to add but I will anyway. I have been on both sides of it. I am on my own now and I am very aware that I would have a hard time being a boss. Too many variables and perspectives to do any blanket rules in my mind. It would be fine until someone pushed things too far, then the book would have to be written and enforced and that would be less than fun.

    I started on manuals, still have a bunch. Biggest share of my income is from a cnc. I fully know the difference if I am full on running the cnc vs sitting/doing other things. I am the one that pays for it either way. I will say that there have been too many nights that if I didn't set down while it was running I would have went home before the parts were done as I was flat wore out. I haven't drug a recliner in there yet.

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    cB .I could say more about how guys manage to work all those hours without much sleep and without pain. Do you have a shop pusher also you let slide?

    To someone that means leverage and competitive pay. Look away right?

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    ----------------------

    White Bird
    Ox

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  28. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid5084 View Post
    Retired now. 45 years in. I have worked in both kinds of shops. I could set up, run, do fixtures, and program. My last 11 years in the trade would have ended in a day if I could not sit and rest. Saw horses for material pallets so not to have to bend over and get down to material. I always exceed to others in cleanliness and organization. I could make the Mills walk, talk, and sing and dance and every employer saw that and made accommodations. Best thing in shops now is ban cell-phones....
    Since you brought it up.
    My cell phone has pictures of setups. It holds screenshots of machine settings and alarms. Part failure and successes. Nameplates off of components to replace. It holds PDFs of machine manuals, a speed and feed app, tap drill chart.

    It has an easy to read in poor light and use one handed calculator with trig functions, conveniently holds the last number when turned off/on. It has a flashlight. A clock with alarm, stopwatch and timer as well as a calendar that will alarm to remind of meetings and deadlines and such. I have apps for Amazon, McMaster-Carr and Haas. It holds material, NEC, ASTM, NA and NAS and host of other standards, photos of material certifications.

    Cool thing I just learned is a slow motion video feature. I used it to diagnose a tool change problem,it was not what it thought the problem was - really neat!

    I haven't opened my coveted Machinery's Handbook in years because it is right there in my pocket or hand..

    Just like a chair, it is a necessary and useful thing if used correctly.

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  30. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Are not you the same one that stated you refuse hiring people you consider "overwieght" ?
    Wow, not a chance or you read something really, really wrong.
    Not a member of the Flint water works.
    Since the family on both sides are the original "sitdowners" I did buy BBQ and take it out to the "line" yesterday.
    I hope you also support in some way our working brothers and sisters during this strike.
    Seems people have some very weird ideas and impressions about me.
    Bob

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  32. #79
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    Hank the floor sweeper does not get a chair, and gets work done.
    'best workers do not use the chairs..'

    I think I smell a theme here.

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    I agree with the low chairs vs stools comment. Low chairs slow people down. Stools let them rest their feet.

    In reference to an earlier comment about finding tasks to keep operstors busy, I may be a bit different, but I dont expect my guys to do anything other than what is directly related to running the machine. I need that machine to run fully and efficiently. Period. I need full complete attention to the machine. You cant do that while you play on your phone, and I doubt it can be done in a low chair. In a stool in front of the control, yes. But again, depends on the shop and the work you do.

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