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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie gary View Post
    Was this before or after Oregon legalized weed?
    Lmao!!Do U Allow Chairs in your CNC shop?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #162
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    We have stools in our shop. They aren't overly comfy but work fine to rest for a few minutes while a machine cycles. I don't mind if my guys are caught up on deburring, the shop is clean, and they are operating a couple of machines. We also have anti fatigue mats in front of all machines. Makes a big difference vs standing on concrete all day. The stools are used as a mobile horizontal surface almost as much as they are sat on.

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    Guess to add a good thing might be better than take something away. Agree sitting between parts is not good when running a one minuet part with need to open a door and all..
    I think a absentee and productivity bones would be good..look good and make production averages and the whole shop/crew gets a $60 kicker ..enough to take the wife out for dinner. Perhaps twice a month on a separate check...Guys would begin to police them selves...perhaps.

    Yes a good crew does good with not a kicker..with concern for the security of the shop.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    If you have time to lean you have time to clean and that job is never done.
    If your job was digging ditches would a chair be an expected part of the deal?
    You are better than a ditch digger and expect some sit down perks? Soon you will want a nice AC office and not have to get your hands dirty.
    If you do not like your job go become a bank teller.... oh wait they don't have chairs either. McDs not much sitting... Go work on wall street.
    It is an active job and your boss may be right.
    Bob
    Quite a bit of work you are... Comparing ditch digging with machining parts.... what's wrong? I love working with machines and I service the damn things, I am a good bit smarter and more logical in my work then a lot of others because I need to be in order to be able to do my work... and there are people like you that are going to tell me I need to change my work because I sit down here and there... who are you to allow yourself to be so condescending? What gives you the right to sort who is for what job? Get off the high horse for a bit...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgmrmike View Post
    I go back and forth in my mind on this issue. We are small, me, one full time and 2 part time guys. I run a machine most days. I dont sit when running. I let my guys sit as long as the machine is running, but honestly dont like it unless its a long run time roughing out. In my mind ( and maybe Im wrong ), if you are 100% involved in your work you are fully prepared to sto the machine, hit single block or pull a shaving in an instant, as needed. We do short run stuff, 1-10pc, average maybe 4pcs/job. If running aluminum widgets, I can see needing a chair. But I am admittedly old school. It does still irk me a bit when one sits down.

    I do know, in the end a blanket ban is not the answer. Each employee is responsible for productivity and should be handled individually.

    I hate to bring this up, but its kinda like gun control, you cant violate the rights of all, due to the actions of a few. Punish the violator for his actions ( or lack of productivity )
    You and I would not get along. At all. I do top notch work. But. I HATE attitudes like this.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Can ‹ start acting like a manager and stop posting alike an 18 year old girl ?

    Some air needs let out of managers tires.
    Like the tough guy routine. Really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    The Cathouse has always had stools at the machines.

    Not just for my guys, but for me! As my feet and legs donít like standing on concrete all day.

    Itís not that big of a deal to make sure your guys know when the machine cycle is finished, itís time to get up off the stool and tend the machine. (Of course all related tasks of operating the machine should be caught up.)

    With all this talk of stools/chairs limiting productivity, I think itís just foolishness to push and push and expect your people to produce at the absolute maximum output every single minute of every day.

    If your shop is that dependent on absolute maximum productivity, then maybe youíre quoting too cheap, or not providing the best machines and tools for the job?

    I have rubber anti-fatigue mats at all the machines too. Actually most are double-stacked, to make a thick, soft surface to stand on.

    Standing on bare concrete for years will kill a manís feet, knees, and back.

    I cringe when I see pics of shops with no mats or stools. Poor machinistís are going to grow old with a lot of aches and pains, that could have been minimized with proper ergonomics.

    A happy, healthy, painless employee is a productive employee.

    ToolCat Greg
    I agree 100%. Cats are smart creatures, and your post proves it /jk. But really, there is nothing but bad health and problems ahead of those that adhere to macho man mentality about standing all the time. There is nothing more stupid then that. The last of your sentences I agree 1000% with. An employee which can work up to his or hers full potential without worrying about pain in legs or back, is the employee that will give the company the most. In contrast, the one that has constant pain, will look mostly how to avoid that pain, while thinking about the job the least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Some of this must matter to work done and cycle time.
    If sitting in your chair you are programming the next op then not so bad and maybe very good.
    If running parts that sit down/ step up takes something.
    Maybe very little, on fast cycles maybe a lot.
    My slow stuff is 60-600 seconds.
    I will haul the chair out of my office on occasion with the long ones.
    My computer system is brutal and will always show me that I loose time by doing so.
    What I should have done in 4 hours now takes me 4 1/2 or 5.
    I work to have all tools, guages, and other within two steps of the operator as each footstep counts.
    Chairs not only get in the way but blow the concept out the window.

    Many people will get up out of the chair and be at the door before the machine stops but let's face it, if you have a chair often you will not get up until the door is already open.

    B-port operators never sat down. Is this a cnc/cell phone/computer thing?
    Bob
    Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. If you need to chase seconds, you're doing something wrong. Either quoting too low or producing way too long. Shops that chase seconds, are mostly in a rat race to the bottom, and that is an industry and mindset where I can't get far enough from that crap. Never made anyone wealthy. Or sane, all the same. That kind of production can only drive you mad, destroy your machines for pennies and you'll still be where you started, or worse off. This now delves into production and shop management, but I leave it at this - mass produced, by the second parts, today - that is a SURE footed way to the bottom, quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmosK View Post
    These are words to live by if you're coaching HS football I suppose. I prefer finding ways to work smarter not harder especially the older I get. Young people need to demonstrate hustle because they really don't have anything else to offer yet. Once they develop some expertise, this should taper off. If not, it becomes toxic to those around them. Expecting some old timer to show hustle sounds completely stupid. And not offering him a stool to help him cope with knee/back issues suffered from decades of service sounds like age discrimination.

    So you want all your smart, more experienced talent to leave and be left with the young, dumb ones (who happen to not have knee and back issues)? Then you can be one of those "good places to get started" where it kinda sucks to work, but you get a couple years of experience and leave.

    I've done the standing desk thing for years due to a back injury. There is some benefit, but if you don't have a place to sit and take a break, it's killer on your body.
    Aka "revolving door shops". A great place to be /sarcasm off

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    12 hour days standing without much time off of one’s feet is a lot.

    It is not worth it to me because I have done way too much like that to my body that the body will tell me quick what I need to do.
    That is not only a lot, that is simply insane. A sure quick way to destroy one's knees and back. Run away from such shops, job is a job, and is not worth your health.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    You do not need to say much more to define yourself as a slacker.
    Can't play...., go find another game. Sit down on the porch and let the big dogs run where you can not.
    Are you going to give me the old whine that I've done this and now my life should be easy because I put my time in?
    Sorry, but when you can't run with the new kids you are obsolete.
    Bob
    I like this attitude, really I do. So everyone who thinks about his health is a slacker to you? Tell me, do you (big dog), pay for health related issues for the remainder of their lives, to all of your former employees? I mean those that had backs and knees ruined by (big dogs)? No?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    You are an extreme exception to the rule. To most people a cell phone is a toy, not a tool.
    Then most people are not serious about their jobs and should get sacked regardless of phones or chairs. Phone is a tool as is everything else. To use it otherwise says to me that I'm having to deal with a di**wad which isn't worth employing either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by implmex View Post
    Good morning All:
    Here's how I see it (further to my post #23:

    "new-ish manager above me decides everyone sits on their ass too much, and REMOVED ALL CHAIRS from the shop"

    Management basically said to the workers:
    You're a bunch of slackass losers and we're going to beat you with a stick.

    Workers said back to management:
    "Problem IS: operators are refusing to work overtime"
    Which translates to: "Fuck you and the horse you rode in on...from now on we work to the minimum standard necessary to keep getting a paycheck"

    I don't see this as a super helpful way to have initiated the conversation or solved the problem (assuming there even WAS one), and the fault, in my opinion, lies entirely with management in this instance.

    If the fundamental problem is insufficient productivity among some of the workers, management needs to do better than to punish everyone...I think toolsteel said it very well in post#82:

    "I was told by a manager i greatly respect that when you punish an entire crew for what a few people are doing wrong its a sign of poor management and/or a sign that the manager is too chicken shit to tackle the problem head on with the problem employees individually."

    Not only that, it smacks of someone who didn't bother to take the time to find out if there were places where productivity could be improved by removing chairs, and other places where the presence of chairs actually helped people to do their jobs, or whether the problem was a toxic workplace culture, or a malcontent who needed firing or whatever.
    Workers are not stupid, and they can see all of this pretty quickly.

    That makes this particular manager a brainless, lazy assed, self absorbed pig who deserves no respect and should be fired before he fucks up worker/employer relations totally.
    The utterly juvenile crap about "earning the chairs back", well I outgrew that sort of bullshit back in early elementary school, and I'd be damned before I let someone pull that kind of crap on me...I'd move heaven and earth to make that asshole look bad in front of HIS boss to see if I could get him fired.
    If I couldn't make that work, I'd know there was no future in that place for me and I'd be planning my escape.

    IMO, it's not the frickin' chairs...it's the attitude.

    Man am I ever glad to be self-employed!

    Cheers

    Marcus
    Implant Mechanix ē Design & Innovation > HOME
    Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining



    You, sir, are a rare breed indeed these days, and my hat is off to you for that. Keep it simple, see trough the BS, and find answers. Love it!

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  15. #174
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    Wife had me go to the Re-Store yesterday with her and the kids. While I was waiting for them to finish I parked myself here.

    img_2765-1-.jpg

    For $25 it followed me home... best $25 I have spent in a LONG time. It is a hell of an improvement over my wood folding chair I normally sit in. Looking forward to a long cycle job next month to see how it naps. Might have to move the bandsaw over to put my feet up on.

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    We have a number of stools near our machines and work benches. No fixed rule as to when you can use it, seems to work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    You misunderstand... Dualkit is talking about Gordon, not Bob.

    Bob's a good dude.

    You seem to have it in your head that you want to be offended. Maybe it's just because you haven't been around to see all the well written, informative, often humorous posts that Bob has shared. Maybe you're just having a bad day. Maybe virgo is in aquarius or whatever stupid astrology thing you want to believe... I dunno...

    But I think you should take a step back and evaluate things, and how you react to them...
    Yea well... his attitude goes over as not all that good to more people then one... I also cant seem to find anything positive in demeaning others with snarky comments, and then when called upon it, weaseling around the issuse, beating around the bush. I do not socialize with people like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    Are you simply trying to drive up your post count? Because if that isn't the reason for this series of rubbish, I'm damned if I can figure out what the reason is.

    STFU and get off of Bob's case. You're starting to sound like a more whiny version of Gordon and the 'prolix useless prat' slot is taken.

    PDW
    The only one who "gets people on his case" is the afore mentioned individual, with his attitude an answers to others. So he should put down others, and he is off limits when that favour needs to be returned? Tough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post

    img_2765-1-.jpg

    For $25 it followed me home... best $25 I have spent in a LONG time. It is a hell of an improvement over my wood folding chair I normally sit in. Looking forward to a long cycle job next month to see how it naps. Might have to move the bandsaw over to put my feet up on.
    Well, now you've done it - you've made me dredge up a story from my young and carefree days...

    It all began when I worked at a place making nuclear sub parts (including running lights. I didn't know subs had running lights before this job). I started out as a machinist, but fairly quickly was booted over to Inspection, as they saw I was slow but meticulous.

    It was my first real job out of tech school, so I was still figuring out work dynamics and stuff. One thing I quickly found out was some of the older machinists would get pissed at me for rejecting parts that were out of print, but close enough that other inspectors had allowed them. The other thing I noticed was that the chair I had in the lab was awfully uncomfortable, just a bare metal stool.

    Being industrious, I noticed an old office chair out by the trash area, consigned to be dumped due to a missing caster. I, being a bright spark, figured I could buy a replacement, fix the chair, and have a comfy place to park my butt while I was working.

    This went well until the head of the Inspection department noticed that the young new guy had a nicer chair than him. He quickly remedied that by grabbing it, and giving me his old one (I think. I may have wound up on the metal stool again, it was +40 years ago and the mind wanders).

    And so my innocence was lost, as I learned my place. Beaten down by The Man, I became the hardened, callous, cruel husk of a man than I am today.

    Now excuse me, there's a puppy that needs kicking...

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  22. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Yup:
    1. No safety glasses
    2. Long sleeves
    3. Probably a good long time machinist

    3. beats the hell out of 1&2

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnc_machinist View Post
    .... So he should put down others, and he is off limits when that favour needs to be returned? Tough.
    I expect nothing less.

    Weird thing is that over many decades in both union and non-union shops I'm know as the "nice" boss.
    I do so much hope that all that have worked for me have a better life than I have had.
    That is kind of my job in the end as I will die only with what I have done for others.
    Do you see yourself and your gains or ease of life as the center of the world? What do you owe?
    Bob


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