Do you use spreadsheets and are you willing to share them? - Page 3
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 83
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    People's Republic
    Posts
    4,484
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    434
    Likes (Received)
    2720

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    I can only strongly recommend you compare it with zoho before buying.
    zoho is an online by the month product, it looks attractive other than that

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    People's Republic
    Posts
    4,484
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    434
    Likes (Received)
    2720

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by schmidty13 View Post
    Yes, far more. I've felt at times in this thread people have forgotten (or ignored) this fact that I've tried to make very clear; my business is -and will remain- a small, one-man shop. It will be a nights and weekend business while I'm working my "normal" job and will be a less than 40 hr/wk job when I retire. If some major increase in business happened that changed that plan, I would then research and purchase the proper MRP/ERP software.

    That said; you all have convinced me to use QB for as much as I can. It's $189 on Amazon and I am pretty certain I will pull the trigger later today.



    I know. Knowing that is what kept me from flaming this thread and never coming back to PM. I know it was "tough love", but at some point it would have been nice if someone had said "I think you're making a mistake, but if I were to do what you are doing, here's some ideas that may help you..."

    Who knew machinists were a bunch of opinionated grouches?! Ha-ha!
    make sure you buy the permanent version, I see no advantage to the 'rental'

    opinionated, whatever gave you that idea.......

  3. Likes schmidty13, camscan liked this post
  4. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    North Dakota
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    40
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    I can only strongly recommend you compare it with zoho before buying.
    Thanks for the recommendation. I will. I started reading reviews on Amazon, and the number of 1 star ratings along with their accompanying comments are giving me pause.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    8,810
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    470
    Likes (Received)
    7247

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    ....

    Excel based workflows fall apart FAST and CATASTROPHICALLY the second more than one person is involved in using them. The more people that become involved, the more it becomes a nightmare hellscape to maintain, and the more it becomes a productivity bottleneck in use. Even the recently added collaboration features have huge caveats and fall massively short of true multiuser concurrency.
    Not so sure.
    I went to work for a place with 4000 people and billions in sales.
    Everyone used a system on the intranet for everything. production entry, tracking, heck if someone called in sick it sent a text to a supervisor's cell phone.
    This thing big so I'm thinking Oracle or other.
    Then one day I hit Alt-F11. oh my, this whole darn thing is excel spreadsheets. All kinds of hidden sheets behind the user interface. SQL pokes to the big database.
    Part of my day to day job was to enter productions by counts on machines by part number.
    I had to this twice once per hour in the now known excel and another daily into the big across the planet database.
    I do not like entering data twice.
    Since the big database a windows application inside excel you have access to the windows API and you can trap and control all messages flowing in and out to any window or owned control.
    Solved that, one click. I'm not typing in 40 parts and counts that I just did.

    Excel has so many functions but inside it is total control and access to the windows API in a somewhat easy to use language.
    Yes a system of this size with many hundreds of spreadsheets must be a nightmare of software maintenance and not how I would structure such but it works for them. This not a small mom and pop deal.
    At first I was aghast, no way a big serious company run on this. Then I began to see this is sort of slick.
    The intranet points you to a sheet or page. That loads, you get what you need or input data. Internal locking steps on can not do or refresh needed with other users.
    It is not fast from a cpu cycle point but who cares about that now,
    It is not clean code and can be hard to follow what is going on with stuff embedded into a who knows what cell, insane to document all the hows and whys.
    Yet niffy and you can do just about anything.
    You could phone in leaving from home and a excel spreadsheet could have your coffee ready and the toast popping up as you walked in the door.
    Bob
    .

  6. Likes schmidty13 liked this post
  7. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    31,468
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    9885

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    You could phone in leaving from home and a excel spreadsheet could have your coffee ready and the toast popping up as you walked in the door.
    Bob
    .
    LOL! Oh yazz.. One could do the same with any web critter, too. Even the Exim MTA.

    But wuddn' yah know it? This pig also provided job security for a large cast of folks with "Certified Microsoft <wotever>" Certs hangin' on the wall.

    Whereas... I can recall two instances, one a nest of Exim + Dovecot on PostgreSQL, another a storefront site.. where PostgreSQL ran a full TWELVE YEARS without need of human intervention atall. Did it's own maintenance and such off the stock defaults, kept on truckin' through OS and app updates, DB either still compatible, or its structure automagically adjusted FOR compatibility by the upgrade process scripts.

    NO full-time staff at all. That's F/LOSS *BSD for yah. JFDI and go do sumthin' ELSE.

    They say "MicroSERF" and take note that Bill Gates has the money you no longer have as historical fact. Not opinion.

  8. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Aberdeen, UK
    Posts
    3,925
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1392
    Likes (Received)
    1590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Not so sure.
    I went to work for a place with 4000 people and billions in sales.
    Everyone used a system on the intranet for everything. production entry, tracking, heck if someone called in sick it sent a text to a supervisor's cell phone.
    This thing big so I'm thinking Oracle or other.
    Then one day I hit Alt-F11. oh my, this whole darn thing is excel spreadsheets. All kinds of hidden sheets behind the user interface. SQL pokes to the big database.
    Part of my day to day job was to enter productions by counts on machines by part number.
    I had to this twice once per hour in the now known excel and another daily into the big across the planet database.
    I do not like entering data twice.
    Since the big database a windows application inside excel you have access to the windows API and you can trap and control all messages flowing in and out to any window or owned control.
    Solved that, one click. I'm not typing in 40 parts and counts that I just did.

    Excel has so many functions but inside it is total control and access to the windows API in a somewhat easy to use language.
    Yes a system of this size with many hundreds of spreadsheets must be a nightmare of software maintenance and not how I would structure such but it works for them. This not a small mom and pop deal.
    At first I was aghast, no way a big serious company run on this. Then I began to see this is sort of slick.
    The intranet points you to a sheet or page. That loads, you get what you need or input data. Internal locking steps on can not do or refresh needed with other users.
    It is not fast from a cpu cycle point but who cares about that now,
    It is not clean code and can be hard to follow what is going on with stuff embedded into a who knows what cell, insane to document all the hows and whys.
    Yet niffy and you can do just about anything.
    You could phone in leaving from home and a excel spreadsheet could have your coffee ready and the toast popping up as you walked in the door.
    Bob
    .
    What you're describing is an SQL front end implemented in excel jumping through hoops to make it production safe.

    This is not a counterargument to anything I've said. It's a relational database backend which is exactly what I've been advocating.

    This is not to say that I approve of front ends built in excel - I still think excel shouldn't exist.

  9. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    31,468
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    9885

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    What you're describing is an SQL front end implemented in excel jumping through hoops to make it production safe.
    LOL! No, actually.. what he just disclosed is that it wasn't anywhere NEAR "production safe"!

    Suely not when a(ny) endLuser can get the system to spill its guts - then crack the system and do as HE damned-well pleased THAT easily?

    That's not right. It wasn't even good enough to class as "wrong"!

    This is not to say that I approve of front ends built in excel - I still think excel shouldn't exist.
    It hasn't existed for ages. Send me the Excel work as a .tsv file or .csv file and we are good to go with no real fuss. I don't have to know or care what you utilized to create the file.

    One overly impressed with himself Director of Engineering thot he could hide bad news under Excel eye-candy? Sent seven biz plans in succession wherein the underlying FACTS didn't cross-foot. Cost him his job. Cost the CPA who was so much in fear of him she had tried to finesse it a demotion.

    Excel doesn't OWN anything else I need.

    What was that "Sergeant Friday" line Jack Webb earned his crust with?

    "Just the facts, M'am. Nothing but the facts."

    Finance will then TELL y'all numbers-gamers what those facts ACTUALLY portend.

    Not the reverse. You can only kid yerself.

  10. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Aberdeen, UK
    Posts
    3,925
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1392
    Likes (Received)
    1590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    LOL! No, actually.. what he just disclosed is that it wasn't anywhere NEAR "production safe"!
    Well yes, I was perhaps being frugal with words.

    The intent was "to try to" make it production safe.

    Or a little less precariously fragile.

  11. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    8,810
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    470
    Likes (Received)
    7247

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    LOL! No, actually.. what he just disclosed is that it wasn't anywhere NEAR "production safe"!

    Suely not when a(ny) endLuser can get the system to spill its guts - then crack the system and do as HE damned-well pleased THAT easily?

    That's not right. It wasn't even good enough to class as "wrong"!

    .
    I never said it a good fit for enterprise use.
    Here it's one person with one machine, heck arguably quickbooks is overkill.
    Crack the system? If the only end user is the developer there is nothing to crack. You own the keys to the building.
    In the above case the developers never locked anything. At the most they just hid the sheets the data stored on. That of course very bad practice for a big multi user system.
    Yes I thought this oh-so wrong for a place that size.

    OTOH in my building I have several machines where the username is "user" and the password is "password".
    CNC control system that dump you into VB with a CTRL-Break and allow you to modify the G-code interpreter underneath and it's actions without a system reset or and password.
    This a nightmare in a larger shop or commercial product but makes things much easier for a little guy to change how things work or add/remove features.
    Dangerous? Yes. Quick and easy? Yes. Good practice? NO.
    Sometimes very small operations need to be quick and nimble and do not have the needs or cares that a larger place or application has.
    Programmers use to bigger have a heart attack at such thoughts of a quick hack on the floor.

    In the days of true relays and maybe 300+ of them in the control we would install jumpers for certain parts. No plc back then. That not safe or right but worked to get the job done.
    Yes on occasion the jumpers not removed when the job finished and then the next job...what the heck and oh poop.

    My view is that excel (or other of the ilk) is great and it is bad. A tool and can be used or misused.
    Very small scale is so very different than large. Trying to apply large to a small is like comparing GM production machining verses a small one off repair shop.
    Different worlds and tactics. The phase "Ivory Tower" comes to mind.
    Not accepting such is simply arrogance and pride. Not something I see as good in a coder.
    Bob

  12. Likes schmidty13 liked this post
  13. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    barcelona, spain
    Posts
    2,458
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    552
    Likes (Received)
    1462

    Default

    I sort of agree with most posters, especially thermite.

    But excel makes a wonderful middleware and front end for all sorts of management stuff.

    It just needs to be linked to a postgres db at the back end - I can do that in 5 minutes.

    The problems with excel mostly are due to the fact that the people did not really know how to *use* excel and were not using it as a front-end and analytical and presentation tool.

    One could use any db like mysql (blah) and oracle or mssql just as well.

    And any proper db can do wonderful things if just someone in the place has skills - but this is rare and tends to be expensive.
    For small shops this is not needed re security, instantiation, triggers whatever, in general.

  14. #51
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    North Dakota
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    40
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    I never said it a good fit for enterprise use.
    Here it's one person with one machine, heck arguably quickbooks is overkill.
    Crack the system? If the only end user is the developer there is nothing to crack. You own the keys to the building.
    So much this. The multi-user argument that keeps getting brought up is a non sequiter in the situation I've described multiple times...and yet it keeps getting brought up. The cons of Excel and the pros of anything else have been laid out ad naseum. I hesitate to say my thread has been hijacked, but it's damn close.

    If somepone wants to share what they've done with spreadsheets, or offer some positive ideas, I'm all ears. If you want to bash Excel, quite frankly I've had enough and would prefer it if you'd start your own thread to rant in.

  15. Likes EOLSON liked this post
  16. #52
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Medina OH
    Posts
    2,215
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    273
    Likes (Received)
    1071

    Default

    We have been much happier with Zoho than QB. As mentioned it is “online” which I really don’t like, and it is subscription, which I also don’t like (we pay yearly). I tried for over a month to originally buy a physical copy of QB from QB, they would not sell me one. I tried several times and couldn’t get a person that would tell me how to buy it. None of the stores around me sell software anymore, so I wound up with QB Online.

    That being said, I used excel spreadsheets for all aspects, including accounting, for the first 6 years I was in business. I manually keyed in every transaction. It became so tedious I would get behind, and when the end of the year came I would spend a couple hours each day keying in transactions.

    As my business grew and changed, the excel sheets became a huge burden. The last year I used excel I had over 40 hours getting everything caught up to get the information my accountant needs for taxes. On a busy month I can easily have 200 transactions that have to be logged between purchases and sales. An excel sheet just wasn’t working anymore. With zoho it takes 5-10 min every couple days to accept or match the transactions and I have a real picture of where I am.

    The flip side, my friend I mentioned, does very few albeit large sales, and has only a few vendors. He still uses excel, it works for him. On a given month he may only have steel, heat treat, wire, rent and utilities as expenses. One or two PO’s.

    Really depends on your business.

  17. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    151
    Likes (Received)
    266

    Default

    I can't waste my time reading what everyone wrote but I'm going to state my short beliefs:

    1. MS has made Excel WAY too "capable" and, IMO, all that does is make people stick with it for way too long instead of going to a true database application (whether it's custom or purchased).

    2. That being said, if you do start out that way, be "quick and simple" and only use it to "lay a standard" of how you want your database system to operate. The "be careful" part is that, if you stick with it for too long, it can literally become an anchor for your business that you're trying to grow.

    3. Don't use workbooks from other people, you'll spend too much time trying to understand and modify them to work for you. If you really are good at Excel, you can do it more efficiently (less time and better functionality) by doing it yourself. Quick test: if you don't know what "vlookup" is, you don't know enough!

    Bottom line: for a small business, the most cost effective way can be to hire a programmer/code writer to create a custom DB system/application. But, you need to know your functionality and he better be a good code writer. Off the shelf ERP systems are, in general, way too complicated because they try to work for every business out there.

    Good luck!
    The Dude

  18. Likes schmidty13 liked this post
  19. #54
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,188
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1040

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    I have never liked QB online. I had to transition through it to get out of GB Enterprise and down into Premier, but never really used it. wife uses it, I won't even look at it. Just weird, not like 'normal' QB at all




    Looks like it integrates with QB

    I have never needed the increased inventory that it offers, actually never tracked inventory at all. I use it in quickbooks for reporting

    everything is an inventory item, but negative balances

    I imagine it is much cheaper than a real MRP system, but far more then the OP envisions needing
    Actually it is a real MRP system and while it does integrate with QB you don't even need QB to use it. When I first came across it my employer was looking at system like MAS90 and getting quotes for $50,000 to $90,000! AllOrders gave me 3 references. First one was funny, guy told me it sucked! I asked him a few questions and it was apparent he had no idea what he was talking about. Second company sold telephone systems where he had to track every component to every customer and he raved about how good it was. Third guy had MAS90, needed a full time IT person and didn't get far in two years. He was so frustrated he bought AllOrders and had his whole business running on it in 3 months time. Our experience at both places was similar and we spent about $5K at the first one and $900 at the second, before expanding to 4 more seats.

  20. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,188
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1040

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    I can't waste my time reading what everyone wrote but I'm going to state my short beliefs:

    1. MS has made Excel WAY too "capable" and, IMO, all that does is make people stick with it for way too long instead of going to a true database application (whether it's custom or purchased).

    2. That being said, if you do start out that way, be "quick and simple" and only use it to "lay a standard" of how you want your database system to operate. The "be careful" part is that, if you stick with it for too long, it can literally become an anchor for your business that you're trying to grow.

    3. Don't use workbooks from other people, you'll spend too much time trying to understand and modify them to work for you. If you really are good at Excel, you can do it more efficiently (less time and better functionality) by doing it yourself. Quick test: if you don't know what "vlookup" is, you don't know enough!

    Bottom line: for a small business, the most cost effective way can be to hire a programmer/code writer to create a custom DB system/application. But, you need to know your functionality and he better be a good code writer. Off the shelf ERP systems are, in general, way too complicated because they try to work for every business out there.

    Good luck!
    The Dude
    Seriously,
    This is really bad advice. Writing software from scratch is just about the worst thing you can do. A package like AllOrders which runs an SQL database is a WAY cheaper way to go that you will have up and running making money before the ink drys on that deposit check to a programmer. The underlying SQL code can be modified and used to write add-ons you may want as well.

    I actually wrote an accounting package before PCs were introduced, and an MRP program using Borland' Paradox database back in the DOS days. Simply because nothing like that existed. No way I would consider doing that today.

  21. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    8,810
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    470
    Likes (Received)
    7247

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by garyhlucas View Post
    ....

    I actually wrote an accounting package before PCs were introduced,...
    So that would be 1974 and earlier.
    Please do tell, ran on what? I like old stories from the days gone.
    Show kids now 8-10 boxes of card decks for one program and they are not impressed.
    Some of my stuff still runs on paradox. Time clocks, production run job punches and feedback from machine part counters. Excel quite happy to play with it.
    I know I such update but why... it works just fine. Tracks employees to the job within a minute, knows if a job is running behind and tells me.....Produces a real time display of the floor and production efficiency.
    Bob

  22. #57
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,188
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1040

    Default

    Bob,
    My first computer was a Southwest Technical Products 6809 microprocessor on an SS50 bus with 64K of Ram, and two 8-1/2” floppy disks that held 1.4Mb each. With a daisy wheel printer and a Centronics line printer plus a serial terminal it cost me $12K! Tough getting it up and running, but at the end of a year by sending invoices on time and statements to every customer I closed out the end of the year with 0 debt and $125K in the checking account. Bought myself a nice sailboat.

  23. Likes CarbideBob, BLAZINGFIEND420 liked this post
  24. #58
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,188
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1040

    Default

    The OP keeps bringing up the fact he is a one man shop. His real problem he’ll soon learn that his biggest problem will be too many unbillable hours doing things like qoutes, invoicing, ordering, buying and tracking materials, and getting paid. This is why you need the help from these programs.

  25. Likes BLAZINGFIEND420 liked this post
  26. #59
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    8,810
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    470
    Likes (Received)
    7247

    Default

    Gary,
    I just have to ask, was the terminal a ADM3 or the "TV Typewriter"?
    I still have functioning audio kit stuff in amps and preamps from SWTP.
    Bob

  27. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    North Dakota
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    40
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by garyhlucas View Post
    The OP keeps bringing up the fact he is a one man shop. His real problem he’ll soon learn that his biggest problem will be too many unbillable hours doing things like qoutes, invoicing, ordering, buying and tracking materials, and getting paid. This is why you need the help from these programs.
    The OP also keeps bringing up the fact that people keep hijacking his thread to spout their opinions on things he didn't ask about. His real problem is he learned that PM apparently isn't the place to get information and advice, but rather a place to be talked down to and lectured. Or to read completely unrelated posts about how people ran computers in the olden days.

    For those few of you who actually gave me actionable suggestions about my original question, thank you very much. It was recognized and appreciated.

    For those of you who gave me reasoned advice why I may be making a bad choice, thank you. It was not ignored.

    For those of you who decided you'd use my thread to brag about what database software you ran 130 years ago, or declare that every single piece of software ever designed is better than Excel, or how stupid I am for thinking it would do the small things I am asking of it...congratulations? I (and undoubtedly other lurkers) will be hesitant to actually ask questions in the future for fear of the same "welcome" being bestowed again.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •