Does anyone here have or know of a small btiquetting machine for aluminum chips?

kustomizer · Mar 29, 2021

I need to compress my chips and I have it in my mind the machine that does it could be perhaps 2-3 feet square and do perhaps 200-300lbs of chips a day? All of the machines I am finding are as big as a car with 10 times that capacity.
One I could park by the machine under the auger outlet would be cool.

thermite · Mar 30, 2021

kustomizer said:
I need to compress my chips and I have it in my mind the machine that does it could be perhaps 2-3 feet square and do perhaps 200-300lbs of chips a day? All of the machines I am finding are as big as a car with 10 times that capacity.
One I could park by the machine under the auger outlet would be cool.

Couldn't find one, either. Suspect the economics don't fit.

Too small for the value of recovery to recover the cost of recovery.

Over a larger sample than "just you", the numbers come out better to stash the chips, tote to a centralized one periodically - on-prem or otherwise.

Small-enough PRESS can be found.

"It's the infrastructure".

Bobw · Mar 30, 2021

Trash compactor?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Gladiator-15-in-Grey-Portable-Trash-Compactor/3294810

BT Fabrication · Mar 30, 2021

my guess is that when you compress such a small amount, the market just isn't there to support it. a 55 gal drum would be perfect amount, but the hydraulics and everything else would make it cost $1000's as you need a motor and pump, PLC if you want it automatic without a guy just standing there. most guys just get a bigger scrap bin dropped off outside and be done with it. if you fill a 40 yard bin, then there is a ton of chips that might be worth doing.
also some don't want bricks as they cant tell what is inside of it all, plus added cost to break it up and process it after.

JP Machining · Mar 30, 2021

I looked into this a few years ago. Couldn't find anything, looked at making something. But once sat down and figured out rough cost to build and then say I kept them till price rose $0.50/lb, would need to store several tons before it would pay for the machine and pixies to run. Bigger problem for me was no scrap yard around even knew what I was talking about, not even when I brought a sample puck in that I made in the shop press inside like a 2" pipe, so def wouldn't pay a premium and some even said would pay less as they couldn't be guaranteed what was inside the puck (couldn't run their huge magnet around and find 3 stray steel chips to dock the price).

kustomizer · Mar 30, 2021

The big bin isn't something I really want to look at every day, it just wouldn't fit in this setting.

The trash compactor might make an interesting test though I suspect it may mot make enough pressure as the chips, mostly from the VMC's are pretty firm and springy. I agree the small machine may not be feasible economically to build but my small press experiment similar to the pipe sample above leads me to believe I can compress them 12 to 1 making it look pretty worth while because of my location. One of the problems associated with moving to the middle of nowhere but we knew this as well as getting material in. I have checked with the two scrap yards easily available to me and they both are willing to take our compressed pucks at the same rate as chips, no premium but at least at the same rate. The close one is 60 miles away to the north and the other close to 200 south, the one to the south will pay more and I likely can get Wonder woman to haul them as there is shopping there and she has a mother to visit, I imagine I would have to go the first time but after that she would be fine. I guess this is as I expected, something I will need to build. Over the last couple of years in thinking about this as a possible project I first thought about hydraulic and the complexities listed above as well as listening to the hydraulic whine and decided something more mechanical looking perhaps a bit like an old hit and miss engine, I have a couple of those I could rob for parts.

DDoug · Mar 30, 2021

Small square hay baler, has the large flywheel, crank and overload protection means.
Add you pipe & plunger in place of the bale chamber.

kustomizer · Mar 30, 2021

Something like this?
2011 Wayne Fair - Miniature Hay Baler - YouTube

DDoug · Mar 30, 2021

kustomizer said:
Something like this?
2011 Wayne Fair - Miniature Hay Baler - YouTube

I'm thinking more round, and no tying needed....

kustomizer · Mar 30, 2021

I was trying to find something on the hay cube machines but It will have to wait until after work.

Once compressed the aluminum pucks don't need tied, my sample wont come apart when thrown at the floor.

dstryr · Mar 30, 2021

kustomizer said:
The big bin isn't something I really want to look at every day, it just wouldn't fit in this setting.
View attachment 317797
The trash compactor might make an interesting test though I suspect it may mot make enough pressure as the chips, mostly from the VMC's are pretty firm and springy. I agree the small machine may not be feasible economically to build but my small press experiment similar to the pipe sample above leads me to believe I can compress them 12 to 1 making it look pretty worth while because of my location. One of the problems associated with moving to the middle of nowhere but we knew this as well as getting material in. I have checked with the two scrap yards easily available to me and they both are willing to take our compressed pucks at the same rate as chips, no premium but at least at the same rate. The close one is 60 miles away to the north and the other close to 200 south, the one to the south will pay more and I likely can get Wonder woman to haul them as there is shopping there and she has a mother to visit, I imagine I would have to go the first time but after that she would be fine. I guess this is as I expected, something I will need to build. Over the last couple of years in thinking about this as a possible project I first thought about hydraulic and the complexities listed above as well as listening to the hydraulic whine and decided something more mechanical looking perhaps a bit like an old hit and miss engine, I have a couple of those I could rob for parts.

Counting down the days until we start trucking things out of here. My view isn't that awesome but it sure is a lot better then the 7000 sq ft lot I have now! lol

DDoug · Mar 30, 2021

kustomizer said:
I was trying to find something on the hay cube machines but It will have to wait until after work.

Once compressed the aluminum pucks don't need tied, my sample wont come apart when thrown at the floor.

yes, I know that.

Point is, small square balers are scrapped out frequently around here, and you want that drive train (and tonnage) the mini baler is too light.

Milland · Mar 30, 2021

Maybe focus on trying to generate smaller, "blocky" chips, as when roughing with corncobs. If most of your metal removal is in this form, even just dumped in a drum it'll take much less space than if spirals or strings, and scrappies can't complain about not being able to sift through it.

Unavoidable light strings (like from finish passes) should be easy for a home trash compactor to deal with. And the results would still be "open" enough to show no other materials mixed in.

Trueturning · Mar 30, 2021

JP Machining said:
I looked into this a few years ago. Couldn't find anything, looked at making something. But once sat down and figured out rough cost to build and then say I kept them till price rose $0.50/lb, would need to store several tons before it would pay for the machine and pixies to run. Bigger problem for me was no scrap yard around even knew what I was talking about, not even when I brought a sample puck in that I made in the shop press inside like a 2" pipe, so def wouldn't pay a premium and some even said would pay less as they couldn't be guaranteed what was inside the puck (couldn't run their huge magnet around and find 3 stray steel chips to dock the price).

Makes perfect sense. This is what ran through my mind first seeing the topic.

Garwood · Mar 30, 2021

Several times now I have seen a cheap old compacting garbage truck and been tempted to buy it and park it next to my shop as the chip dumpster.

A few years ago I read a research article about a process to sinter compacted aluminum chips. Made it sounds like you could actually make stuff from the chips. Never heard anything else though.

atomarc · Mar 30, 2021

I would think a simple old log splitter would be adaptable quite easily, and living in the sticks in Idaho, it's something you might already have in your tool shed.

Stuart

kustomizer · Mar 30, 2021

digger doug said:
yes, I know that.

Point is, small square balers are scrapped out frequently around here, and you want that drive train (and tonnage) the mini baler is too light.

If you run across a pic of one of these, please share it, a lot of hay is made around here, in huge bales or pickup size rolls but there are likely ones like you are talking about and once I know what to look for I may be able to locate one or five.

DDoug · Mar 30, 2021

kustomizer said:
If you run across a pic of one of these, please share it, a lot of hay is made around here, in huge bales or pickup size rolls but there are likely ones like you are talking about and once I know what to look for I may be able to locate one or five.

McCormick/IH Model 46 Hay Baler - farm & garden - by owner - sale
JD Wire Tie Baler - farm & garden - by owner - sale

My neighbor has an old auger feed international in the weeds, the sheetmetal is about gone, but the driveline is still free.

Trueturning · Mar 30, 2021

atomarc said:
I would think a simple old log splitter would be adaptable quite easily, and living in the sticks in Idaho, it's something you might already have in your tool shed.

Stuart

One place I saw years ago made a manual hay bailer. They sold it for years. True the fact that the recycler can not easily verify what is in it would be a block as far as they are concerned unless they just trust that the compressed chips are the same material. There have been innumerable battles over contaminated material which lessens the amount paid. It seems a tool to pay less that the going price for it.

With brass jobs ran at one place it was so clean we knew it was bs and hand sorted barrels manually picking out steel in minor amounts and got it perfectly clean and they still gave a lower price. Diminishing returns. It seemed unless one machine only ran one type material then cross contamination is pretty assured.

We got sick of it. We just ended up with a back and forth on price which was not really worth it.

Garwood · Mar 30, 2021

Trueturning said:
One place I saw years ago made a manual hay bailer. They sold it for years. True the fact that the recycler can not easily verify what is in it would be a block as far as they are concerned unless they just trust that the compressed chips are the same material. There have been innumerable battles over contaminated material which lessens the amount paid. It seems a tool to pay less that the going price for it.

With brass jobs ran at one place it was so clean we knew it was bs and hand sorted barrels manually picking out steel in minor amounts and got it perfectly clean and they still gave a lower price. Diminishing returns. It seemed unless one machine only ran one type material then cross contamination is pretty assured.

We got sick of it. We just ended up with a back and forth on price which was not really worth it.

I think they keep a shirt pocket with a layer of steel chips in the bottom. It's the same pocket they keep the magnet it.

I grabbed it out of a guys hand one time, pulled the steel chips off and couldn't find anymore steel chips. I said it looks like you musta got all the steel out with your magnet. He just laughed and the price didn't change.

Does anyone here have or know of a small btiquetting machine for aluminum chips?

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