Dummy shipment to meet year end receiving requirement? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Seeing as how there is school ground bickering, I have choosen to skip over that stuff. If this has been previously covered, I apologize in advance.

    Prepayment for work is not uncommon. I would word it like that to them. Doing a part switch aroo later is shade tree hack shit. They are most likely trying to cover a clause in one of there contracts by having you lie for them.
    Does that open you up to action and other shenanigans internal or external to there company. People get pissed when parts are suppose to be some place and it is discovered there not.
    If the company is Iso there are mechanisms inside it to deal with late parts, But to throw a major non-conformity, just because your asked nicely. Its your game I am just arm chair quarter-backing.

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    A couple experiences:

    Company delivers product to commercial customers before completion, customers accept delivery, company takes back product to complete it. SEC finds out, makes company restate earnings back X quarters, company stock takes big hit, company pays big fine.

    Parent company VP forces subsidiary to accept extra product (possibly just on paper) to clear year end inventory, higher ups find out, everyone involved canned.

    If the government is a customer in any form or fashion you might get some face time with government prosecutors even if you aren't charged. I suspect the company doesn't allow "advance payments", just physical deliveries for accountability.

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    I want to thank everybody- these responses have been incredibly helpful because they clarified a dividing line between what's legit and what's misrepresentation. I can now make a proposal, be it accepted or rejected, that I can live with. Maybe I'm a bit old fashioned, but down slippery slopes I prefer my butt not slide.

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  5. #24
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    I do this all the time. Working in the fast paced industrial setting is becoming.... Wait, wait, wait, hurry up I need it yesterday. So when a PO is issued in August, delayed until November, restarted in December, and need to do 3 months worth of work by 12/31 means you have to keep your customers happy.

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    Over here the difference in how you do this leagally is greatly effected by if its for a customer or goverment agency. A customer, there internal rules realy can't hurt you much, especially if you can document you were simply doing as asked (there the customer and ask you - pay you to do what they want at the end of the day). Doing this with a government contract and and problems could bite you badly!!!

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    Ship the documentation.
    Always show the document package on your invoices and packing lists.
    Indicate as partial shipment.

  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    sure, but what does that have to do with having to a fake shipment? Being invoiced before year end is entirely different, commonplace and not fraud, use it or lose it budget mentality...and its not just government
    Funds expire at XYZ date, for certain government transaction types the funds cannot be released to the vendor until the product is delivered and there is a signed packing slip by the receiving party (the shipment has to actually be made for tracking purposes). It's possible the purchasing entity is requesting you to "ship the stuff now" and they will sign the slip as being received so funds will clear, and then at a later date when the remainder of the "goods" are ready to ship, the rest can be shipped to them.

    Funny business? Sure, but often times in that line of work funny business takes place and is a necessary evil. The restrictions on buying are so burdensome that it nearly takes an act of congress, so their lucky to get anything, and any way they can work the system to get the stuff they need they will do it in some cases. In this case I don't believe the shipper would have any culpability if the receiving party falsified a document stating they received the order in full, that falls on the shoulders of the person that receives the package and signs the documentation stating they received it.

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  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CountryBoy19 View Post
    Funds expire at XYZ date, for certain government transaction types the funds cannot be released to the vendor until the product is delivered and there is a signed packing slip by the receiving party (the shipment has to actually be made for tracking purposes). It's possible the purchasing entity is requesting you to "ship the stuff now" and they will sign the slip as being received so funds will clear, and then at a later date when the remainder of the "goods" are ready to ship, the rest can be shipped to them.

    Funny business? Sure, but often times in that line of work funny business takes place and is a necessary evil. The restrictions on buying are so burdensome that it nearly takes an act of congress, so their lucky to get anything, and any way they can work the system to get the stuff they need they will do it in some cases. In this case I don't believe the shipper would have any culpability if the receiving party falsified a document stating they received the order in full, that falls on the shoulders of the person that receives the package and signs the documentation stating they received it.
    that makes sense. I never seen it hinge on delivery, but then again don't sell anything to the US government

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    Play it straight and hone st as it keeps you on correct side of the bars.

    Bill for 100% of your time and deliver whatever is completed.

    If materials need to be delivered then you can deliver whatever you have and transfer ownership via invoice or delivery document.

    Also indicate optimization or other wording to indicate not ready for final use and that that adjustment will be made at no charge at time of need.

    Delivering scrap or empty boxes may be agreed to but an auditor will get you maybe.

    Work as directed by the sales agreement and po but keep it clear and above board.

    Consider your actions to be published in the newspaper. ..act acordingly.

    This forum is a discoverable document so discussing being funny could be discovered and used.
    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

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    Thanks, always aware of that on the 'net. I came up with a fully above board solution to the problem, but haven't heard anything back yet.

  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    that makes sense. I never seen it hinge on delivery, but then again don't sell anything to the US government
    My friend that works for the government told me that unless it's a contract with specific purchase/payment terms written into the contract, everything is payment after receipt. He said the ship it now then ship again later when you actually have it while not "common occurrence", does happen occasionally because it's often difficult to "work around funding timelines". He gave me a brief synopsis of how gov funding works. The fiscal year ends on Sept 30 and new begins Oct 1. Sometimes, but very rarely does funding "extend" or bridge from one fiscal to the other. So come Sept 30th any funds that haven't been spent expire and go back to Congress general fund. But if Congress drags their feet with the new budget or funding documents aren't properly in place prior to the change of the fiscal year it could take weeks for the funding for the new year to actually come through. So from Oct 1 through XYZ date (sometimes as late as December) you cannot make any purchases and the employees are all paid with "phantom money". They know the funding is coming in but they don't know when for sure; but people still gotta get paid. In some cases the employees aren't even allowed to come into work and they don't get paid, but generally congress will authorize back-pay for the time they were off. Once the money hits, "the race is on" to get the supplies, goods, etc that you need before purchasing gets cut off. Generally, in preparation for the end of the fiscal year (to ensure all product is delivered and the funds clear through before Sept 30) the purchasing gets shut down around June/July timeframe. So in a bad year when funds don't hit until December, you get 6 months to purchase EVERYTHING you need for a full year of work. Imagine trying to run a shop where you can only purchase raw materials, tooling, coolant, repair services (that's a big one) 6 months out of the year, but you don't always know what jobs will walk through the door. You have to have a crystal ball, or you have to buy as much as you think you'll possibly need then a little padding. It's a HUGE PITA to work around; imagine one of your CNC machines breaks down in July and you need to pay a repair tech and buy parts. It may be December before you can even input the purchase, which takes a month or 2 to be approved, then the repair tech schedules the repair and comes out in April to get the machine back up and running.

    My friend told me that exact thing happened to one of their Haas machines. Big horizontal, 1 year old, less than 1,000 spindle hours and the spindle went out and chucked parts. It took them 7 months to get it repaired because of the funding/purchasing/repair parts nightmare.

    And people wonder why the government is broke... it's because they have to have redundant machines to cover down-time when that crap happens.

    ETA, how does this all fit into the OP's position? Imagine if you will you input a purchase right before things got cut off and the vendor took longer than expected to send the package, maybe they didn't have it in stock and their supplier took longer than expected to get it to them. It's a trusted vendor, and you know they will come through. Sept 30 is rapidly approaching and on that date the funds will expire, you will lose that funding, and you will have to redo the purchase next fiscal year with your new funding. You have 2 options, #1 let the funds expire, vendor now doesn't get paid regardless if they send the goods or not, and re-input the purchase. #2 "Receive the goods" tell the purchasing department such so the vendor gets paid, then the real goods will come in later (because the vendor is trusted). Is it legal? I don't have a clue, but from a perspective of carrying out the mission and being good stewards of your funding, it sounds like a necessary evil to me.

  15. #32
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    Another thought I had. Sometimes this will hit you hard as everything was presigned for and then changed happen. Dealing with that can be disastrous.


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