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  1. #21
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    I think the sales reps get too comfy and/or play the Fastenal/Ackland/MSC pricing game. They'd all love to sell you $3/lb material for $5/lb and they will if they know you're not checking/comparing and keeping them on their toes. Doesn't matter if you buy $10k/yr or $10mil/yr either.

    It's interesting how many believe in screwing new customers, "but if you buy a lot more we'll start giving you regular price eventually" , just like that ackland pricing... not how I do business.

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    When I call EMJ Phoenix I always end up talking to a guy named Jim.
    Jim has a tone about him that makes you feel like you are wasting his time. I cringe when he answers.
    And, their prices are high. Castle is significantly cheaper.
    My local Bralco guys are all cool. And, they take pretty good care of me/us (the local guys).
    I placed the first order I've made in about a year with IMS last week. My girl there was like: "I was wondering what happened to you!"
    My reply: "You guys refuse to compete with Bralco" Her reply: "My hands are tied Hunny" (I was ordering 1018 that Bralco doesn't stock)

    One of the biggest selling points for Bralco with me in the last couple years: their sawing services kick ass!
    The material comes in square, on size, and CLEAN! I love it!
    IMS's sawing services SUCK at best!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    One of the biggest selling points for Bralco with me in the last couple years: their sawing services kick ass!
    The material comes in square, on size, and CLEAN! I love it!

    IMS's sawing services SUCK at best!
    I had a huge problem a couple of months ago with getting plates from IMS that was gouged to hell on one side. I called up and raised hell, the replacement plates were worse. They sent a salesmen with perfect plates to replace the 2nd set of bad material.

    The barstock I just recieved from IMS isn't much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post

    Had one recently. 7075-T76511... I got that!!!.. Quoted it with material... NOPE.. I had T73511 in stock...
    Shit.. I wasted 10 hours of my life looking for 2 pounds of T76511... You can get it in thin wall extrusions,
    but not bar stock.. Had the customer go back and dig.. I could use T651.. I had plenty of that in stock, DFARs
    compliant and everything... What a pain in the ass.

    $600 job and I wasted 10 hours trying to find the f'n material... 2 lbs of the F'n material..
    I had a job that called for .375" 7075-T7651 plate. I only needed maybe 3-4 square feet, but the only place I found it would only sell me a full 4x8 plate. I still have most of that plate sitting on a shelf.

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    I think with EMJ it is possible that your results vary depending on where your local branch is. Here around the capitol of the confederacy business practices can be pretty putrid. I would say my local (70 miles South) EMJ is high as can be on prices and they seem to list items on their website they do not stock, so along with high prices they also quote long delivery times. Of course they can get you anything as long as you have 3 weeks + and willing to pay McMaster prices + 100%. They are so bad here I don't even have them on my favorites under metal supply and that list is a real long one. Of course I am a real small fry as a metal consumer, the max I ever order is 500 pounds at a time.

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    Oh-boy does this thread bring back memories, long out of the rat race now but the change from having service center guys calling on you often was the shits right from the start… And at that you still called “that guy” at a local phone number & let him turn the order in to save a few dollars. People under 50 here likely won’t have an idea of living with phone calls @ $2.10 (for 3 minutes) & 50cents per min thereafter… Steel and labor were CHEAP, and being on hold was a “whole other thing”! 800 numbers fixed the money thing but did nothing for FNG misery you got on the other end???

    EMJ & Ryerson basically chase the same folks ‘round here but there are plenty of smaller guys chiseling the merchant steel customers out of there hands (easily then, & prolly the same now).

    Kinda sad that Bobw isn’t getting any joy, maybe contact the area sales guy (should be closer to mgmt). His EMJ book is the same (mid 80’s) as mine at home, the older ones had a BIG picture of the EMJ truck logo on the front with the “Steel & Aluminun” below and a bit smaller print.

    I kept most of the ones I thought useful (attached). Also attaching USS supply’s info which can be used for HT calculations (you gotta plot the graph) & properties. AND for those who’ve never lived in a world where customers were MAILED the price lists which were good until you got a new one in the mail (way cheaper than using the phone). In 1975 from the USS service center 5 1/2” 4340HR ran $35.91 per 100# and the same HR bar in 4340AQ ran $42.25 per 100#. You had to calculate the cuts, miles & drop charges yourself but they published those prices for you too.

    Good luck,
    Matt

    And on edit, What's not to like about Copper & Brass Sales, Great guys!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails steel_junk.jpg   uss_4340_data.jpg   4340hr_1975price.jpg   4340aq_hr_1975price.jpg  
    Last edited by Matt_Maguire; 03-04-2018 at 03:28 PM. Reason: Add info

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  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    When I call EMJ Phoenix I always end up talking to a guy named Jim.
    Jim has a tone about him that makes you feel like you are wasting his time. I cringe when he answers.
    And, their prices are high. Castle is significantly cheaper.
    My local Bralco guys are all cool. And, they take pretty good care of me/us (the local guys).
    I placed the first order I've made in about a year with IMS last week. My girl there was like: "I was wondering what happened to you!"
    My reply: "You guys refuse to compete with Bralco" Her reply: "My hands are tied Hunny" (I was ordering 1018 that Bralco doesn't stock)

    One of the biggest selling points for Bralco with me in the last couple years: their sawing services kick ass!
    The material comes in square, on size, and CLEAN! I love it!
    IMS's sawing services SUCK at best!
    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    I had a huge problem a couple of months ago with getting plates from IMS that was gouged to hell on one side. I called up and raised hell, the replacement plates were worse. They sent a salesmen with perfect plates to replace the 2nd set of bad material.

    The barstock I just recieved from IMS isn't much better.
    Im just finishing of a job in 316L. Customer supplied (from Jorgenson BTW, im not supposed to know...)
    Cut from 2.5, 2.75 and 3" plate.
    First shipment was nice. Square, clean and within .125" dimensionally. Thats pretty decent.
    Last shipment was .5" over size in cut dimensions, crooked.... not even parallelogram. Even the mill finish face were too far out of parallel for me to hold in the vise.
    Had to square every single one (226 parts) before even beginning my work.

    Pissed doesnt begin to describe it.
    What kind of pirates do they have cutting this shit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by macds View Post
    Im just finishing of a job in 316L. Customer supplied (from Jorgenson BTW, im not supposed to know...)
    Cut from 2.5, 2.75 and 3" plate.
    First shipment was nice. Square, clean and within .125" dimensionally. Thats pretty decent.
    Last shipment was .5" over size in cut dimensions, crooked.... not even parallelogram. Even the mill finish face were too far out of parallel for me to hold in the vise.
    Had to square every single one (226 parts) before even beginning my work.

    Pissed doesnt begin to describe it.
    What kind of pirates do they have cutting this shit?
    Pretty sure they're not the same people who saw my material. You could visit your local branch and see what the conditions are. Scope out the saw and see if the teeth have corners on both sides of the blade. For that matter, check the help and see if they have teeth...

  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by macds View Post
    Im just finishing of a job in 316L. Customer supplied (from Jorgenson BTW, im not supposed to know...)
    Cut from 2.5, 2.75 and 3" plate.
    First shipment was nice. Square, clean and within .125" dimensionally. Thats pretty decent.
    Last shipment was .5" over size in cut dimensions, crooked.... not even parallelogram. Even the mill finish face were too far out of parallel for me to hold in the vise.
    Had to square every single one (226 parts) before even beginning my work.

    Pissed doesnt begin to describe it.
    What kind of pirates do they have cutting this shit?

    I had a job turning some 316 plates that were burnt out, but not annealed. I don't recall the service center that provided the blanks, but they barely cleaned up (and on occassion - didn't) so I couldn't git my tool below the HAZ. It was enough to make 600 series carbide fuss and Big Bertha stress about it too! I'm sure that the thicker it gits, the worse the cut will be.

    I ran some parts for a shop last fall that they wanted to provide burnout material for. The top and bottom faces of the plate were flat and parrallel, only the two sides had any .. topography .. to them, and was easily put on with a finish endmill at the end. I quoted it as me supplying material. (and I got it)

    When I RFQ;d the material, they quoted it as burnt out. I really didn't want burnt plates.... How about sawn to size? "Sure, we can doo that, but it costs more." Turns out that it penciled out to maybe $1/part on a $50/part material job. So - it really was negligible extra cost, and it got me 2 sides that were already to size, and I could chuck them up in the vice and be good to go. No HAZ to deal with...

    I think they had planned to run these in-house as I noticed that they recently put in a cpl of large VMC's, but they pinged me aggin a few weeks ago with a fire, and needed these same parts ran - and in higher qty's. They already had the burn-outs. I was a week further out than their requested delivery this time, and so I didn't git it, but I also quoted it higher if they wanted me to dick with their burn-outs. I have no clue who there ever spec'd burn-outs, but it was NOT the cheapest way to make those parts!


    -------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    I haven't even bothered with Jergenson in maybe 6 or 7 years..

    If I didn't want a container load of steel, they didn't want to know who the fuck I was..

    They can suck my balls.

    Also, if you didn't know.. Earle M. Jorgenson, is owned by the same folks that own
    Yarde Metals.
    Viking Materials
    Valex Corp
    Tubular Steel Inc.
    Tube Service Co.
    Team Tube WTF???
    Sunbelt Steel
    Sugar Steel Corporation
    Siskin Steel and Supply
    Service Steel Aerospace
    Reliance Steel
    Reliance Metals
    Reliance Aerospace Solutions.
    Precision Strip Inc.
    Precision Flamecutting and steel
    Phoenix Metals
    PDM steel service centers.
    Pacific Metal
    Northern Illinois Steel
    National Specialty Alloys.
    Metal Web
    Metals USA
    Metal Center
    Liebovich Brothers (Illinois)
    Infra Metals
    Fox Metals And Alloys
    Ferraloy corporation
    Encore Metals
    EMJ
    Durrett Sheppard Steel
    Diamond Manufacturing
    Delta Steel
    Crest Steel
    Continental Alloys
    Clayton Metals
    Chatham Steel
    Chapel Steel
    Central Plains Steel
    CCC Steel
    Bralco
    Best Manufacturing
    AMI metals
    American Metals Corp
    Aluminum and Stainless Inc.
    Allegheny Steel
    All Metal Services.


    My local Reliance salesman is really cool, but I don't need his stuff..
    My local Bralco rep is cool as hell, but the asshole in the sales office
    in ABQ is a piece of shit... Hey DALE, I'm talking to you DALE.. If you
    are still there.. I won't do business with BRALCO in ABQ because of DALE..
    Dale likes to fuck people.. DALE is THE reason I use Copper and Brass.
    Fuck you Dale.

    I'd get frustrated because I would order something from Bralco, and they would
    keep putting off delivery... PUT IT ON THE BRALCO TRUCK!!!, We can't do that..

    At least with EMJ, I knew I would get it the next Tuesday or Thursday if they
    had it in Phoenix, if I could even get a quote, I just don't bother anymore.
    I have to not eat when I read PM.....I just choked on a granola bar because of laughing outburst. I looked in the mirror and was beat red. The third sentence is what did it.

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    According to my EMJ sales rep, the Earle M. Jorgensen trucks are still in service, if you ever saw one of them, they are very unusual. Their cabs are barely a two seat width. The rep said that they can't use them on roads any more, but they still use them in their yards for material transfers.

    I have no picture of them to share

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    Yeah, I am bitter... That POS DALE, fucked me hard.. Time
    and price, and then shipping because it came from further away...

    Fuck Dale.

    And it sucks, because my rep is awesome, and I'd love to give her
    some business, but I'm just going to get fucked in the end because of the
    guy that runs the sales department. My sales guy was awesome too, but
    Dale hamstrung him and fucked me more than once.. Rick, He's gone now...

    So FUCK DALE.. FUCK HIM RIGHT IN THE EAR... If it was more than a modest order
    DALE would take it over, jack the price, jack the shipping, delay the shipment, and
    then I would assume take the commission.

    so YES, I am bitter.. He not only fucked over ME, he fucked over some people that he
    worked with that I really liked and respected and I liked working with...

    So yes, FUCK DALE!!!!
    Why, why.....I had just settled down, made the mistake of taking big gulp of water as I was reading the post.....had to spit it into my shirt to avoid trashing the computer....that's it, from now on, it's nothing while reading the posts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Maguire View Post
    Oh-boy does this thread bring back memories, long out of the rat race now but the change from having service center guys calling on you often was the shits right from the start… And at that you still called “that guy” at a local phone number & let him turn the order in to save a few dollars. People under 50 here likely won’t have an idea of living with phone calls @ $2.10 (for 3 minutes) & 50cents per min thereafter… Steel and labor were CHEAP, and being on hold was a “whole other thing”! 800 numbers fixed the money thing but did nothing for FNG misery you got on the other end???

    EMJ & Ryerson basically chase the same folks ‘round here but there are plenty of smaller guys chiseling the merchant steel customers out of there hands (easily then, & prolly the same now).

    Kinda sad that Bobw isn’t getting any joy, maybe contact the area sales guy (should be closer to mgmt). His EMJ book is the same (mid 80’s) as mine at home, the older ones had a BIG picture of the EMJ truck logo on the front with the “Steel & Aluminun” below and a bit smaller print.

    I kept most of the ones I thought useful (attached). Also attaching USS supply’s info which can be used for HT calculations (you gotta plot the graph) & properties. AND for those who’ve never lived in a world where customers were MAILED the price lists which were good until you got a new one in the mail (way cheaper than using the phone). In 1975 from the USS service center 5 1/2” 4340HR ran $35.91 per 100# and the same HR bar in 4340AQ ran $42.25 per 100#. You had to calculate the cuts, miles & drop charges yourself but they published those prices for you too.

    Good luck,
    Matt

    And on edit, What's not to like about Copper & Brass Sales, Great guys!
    Top left shelf right by the cigarette box....what are the titles of those 6 or so books?

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  19. #34
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    I use EMJ.........a lot!

    When sending out RFQ's for material I always send it out to the same three places, EMJ, Admiral Metals, and PSC (Pennsylvania Steel), and Atlantic Stainless if I need price comparisons for SST.

    We buy bar stock and cut pieces depending on the application needed in house.


    Typically, the three suppliers are all in the same ballpark, same for Atlantic with SST.

    Admiral almost always can deliver within a day or two regardless if I'm buying bar stock or cut pieces, and I mean anywhere from 10pcs to 1,000, it's here in a couple days max.

    EMJ is quick with bar stock delivery, but cut pieces can be a week or more.

    PSC, despite pricing being good and delivery within a week, I simply cannot count on them delivering as promised, therefore if my delivery is tight, I will opt not to use them even if it means paying more for the stock.

    Pricing is not always the deciding factor, often times it is based solely on delivery.


    I will say this though. I have become very good friends with the regional sales manager from EMJ over the course of many years. He has helped me out tremendously many times with difficult to acquire materials for some of these older military drawings with their outdated spec.'s and offered a suitable substitute that we were able to get approved and use to win contracts. He has helped my business grow as a result, and not too mention getting wined and dined sure has its perks as well.

    I really think you have to reach out on a more personal level with any sales rep, to sorta steer them in the direction you want them to go in. It has worked for me over the years, and I find I have few problems getting any sort of material regardless of specification requirement from any of my suppliers.

    I also have no problem sitting down with a supplier or vendor sales rep., and explaining to them what we do, what I need, and what I need them to do in order to achieve my business.

    You'd be surprised how much of an influence that can be when I see the next batch of quotes come back in for materials I am in need of.

    Best Regards,
    Russ

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  21. #35
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    So what is the secret handshake to get off the undesirable customer list? I've bought from them as often as I needed to for 20+ years, and I still send them RFQs. Once upon a time I did more with them, I still have 2 of those inventory books. All the other material sellers visit me after a quote or a purchase, asking what they can do to get more, and asking how their quote compared to others. Not a peep from EMJ.in years. Even Clinton in Ohio who doesn't deliver here does more to pursue my business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    When I call EMJ Phoenix I always end up talking to a guy named Jim.
    Jim has a tone about him that makes you feel like you are wasting his time. I cringe when he answers.
    You're an aluminium fella ... is Lusk still around ? I always talked to Hey Babe ! Mike McFeely. And he was always 30% less than anyone else. And it was almost always Alcoa, once in a while Reynolds.

    Good place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    You're an aluminium fella ... is Lusk still around ? I always talked to Hey Babe ! Mike McFeely. And he was always 30% less than anyone else. And it was almost always Alcoa, once in a while Reynolds.

    Good place.
    Never heard of Lusk?

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    According to my EMJ sales rep, the Earle M. Jorgensen trucks are still in service, if you ever saw one of them, they are very unusual. Their cabs are barely a two seat width. The rep said that they can't use them on roads any more, but they still use them in their yards for material transfers.

    I have no picture of them to share
    If you mean back when Jorgensen trucks were dark green, I remember those although we usually saw conventional tractor-trailers. For years we had a Jorgensen Steel flag for attaching to overhanging loads, kept it hanging on the office wall. I think somebody thought it was cool and liberated it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    You're an aluminium fella ... is Lusk still around ? I always talked to Hey Babe ! Mike McFeely. And he was always 30% less than anyone else. And it was almost always Alcoa, once in a while Reynolds.

    Good place.
    Reliance bought Lusk in 1998.
    You are just a bit out of touch.
    Reliance Steel to Buy Closely Held Lusk Metals - latimes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mud View Post
    So what is the secret handshake to get off the undesirable customer list?
    There's no Undesirable list as far as I know, but they used to have a classification known as "casket accounts," which was Jorgensen's highest customer rating. A casket account didn't necessarily total big dollar amounts but could be counted on to order at least every 30 days. I don't know whether that still exists, but it does show old Earle's thinking—and he wasn't exactly a business slouch.

    We order 1400 lbs minimum every week except for holidays. If the truck doesn't deliver on Monday as promised, it really is free. Once the truck broke down overnight on I-25 and a whole bunch of customers held them to it. We blew it off, as it's the sort of thing that could happen to anybody. But the rest of that load was giant 4140 bar stock destined for oilfied shops, who would give no quarter to anybody. It must have cost EMJ a mint.

    Soon after that our guy had a gorgeous new truck and trailer. Anyway, as with any vendor/customer relationship, it's probably how often the same rep takes an order from you. Sooner or later they'll remember your name...just like you and your customers.


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