What's new
What's new

Employee needing further clarifications on Company Notice/Policy

Jetrocket

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Hi All,

I've been running around today trying to determine the best way to resolve an issue in regards to a recent notice on our PTO and sick leave. We sent a formal letter out to inform our employees of what our policy was in regards to these subjects and had them sign a paper stating they have received. We have one employee in particular that either truly doesn't understand it in it's entirety or is picking it apart (most likely out of spite of a previous conversation) and am unsure on exactly what to do here. We've explained our policy and directed him through the proper channels to seek more information but seems adamant on that information being re-written within that notice. No other employee has an issue understanding what was received as it was just a reiteration of what our existing policy was.

It has apparently annoyed our lady in HR to the point as she believes it being done to antagonize her and may be so. Here is what I really care about at this point... What information is required from the employer to the employee? We do not have an employee handbook but after today am about ready to just go ahead and make one. We feel no need to reiterate state laws hence why we directed him to both the posters available in the break room and a link to the labor commissions office if needed. Are we at risk here? We try to keep things simple and rely on affective communication to do so which has not been an issue so much in the past as it has become now with this individual in particular.
 
So what if the policy has changed ?

If the employee can't understand that it has not changed, rather re-explained a different way, have employee take it to his/her lawyer to 'splain it.

And at the end of the day, even if that lawyer thinks it has in fact been a policy change...so what.

New policy.
 
Not a lawyer. But if this guy has been a dick before, and may be so again, then document, document, document. Every meeting, every statement, every issue he has that no one else does.

If he's setting things up to be fired and then claim various and sundry legal reasons why he shouldn't have been, you want a solid paperwork trail showing what you did to explain the policies and accommodate his concerns.

Unless he's asking fair questions, and everyone else signed for the same reason as EULAs - nobody wants to read the fine print. That's something you need to check into.
 
Not a lawyer. But if this guy has been a dick before, and may be so again, then document, document, document. Every meeting, every statement, every issue he has that no one else does.

If he's setting things up to be fired and then claim various and sundry legal reasons why he shouldn't have been, you want a solid paperwork trail showing what you did to explain the policies and accommodate his concerns.

Unless he's asking fair questions, and everyone else signed for the same reason as EULAs - nobody wants to read the fine print. That's something you need to check into.

This is mostly what I’m fearing, In example he interpered the use for sick leave in case of a family members illness as a possibility for sick leave to be transferable to family members within a workplace... he has no family here. This came from wording within the notice that stated “sick leave may be used for family members”

This was all just a reminder that was focused on PTO as some employees were requesting paid days off for unscheduled days with no prior notice.

He knows we avoid excessive documentation and I believe he is creating a reason for one to annoy/anger the owner in hopes to be fired to perhaps claim unfair reasoning.
 
This is mostly what I’m fearing, In example he interpered the use for sick leave in case of a family members illness as a possibility for sick leave to be transferable to family members within a workplace... he has no family here. This came from wording within the notice that stated “sick leave may be used for family members”

This was all just a reminder that was focused on PTO as some employees were requesting paid days off for unscheduled days with no prior notice.

He knows we avoid excessive documentation and I believe he is creating a reason for one to annoy/anger the owner in hopes to be fired to perhaps claim unfair reasoning.

I told my new boss that I didn't schedule 90% of my vacation.

However I will NOT run out the door on a friday that get's sunny out, whilst
leaving work to do. If I ask for a day off last minute, I make sure my work
is caught up to a point I can step away for a day or two.

This commitment by me, works well, and I have had no problems.
 
you have a lazy HR person.
basically you are asking him to sign a legal document that is
incomplete.
put on your big boy pants and do it.

Complete to what extent? If personal feelings or life experiences alter his perception of the world or it’s wording should I change my business around him? Should I grab a dictionary and sit with him as we go through the definition of each word? Wait... I should build a time machine and be a part of his upbringing to better prepare him on how to interact with his fellow men/women of the world!

We are a small company and do not employ someone in HR specifically. We have a lady working as AP/AR that is handling this for us and works hard at doing so. With this guy it starts with this policy and ends with every detail of how the business operates down to how to open a box of pens.

Putting my “big boy pants on” would result in this employee losing his job as a result of what he is asking for since he constantly has issues such as temper and attitude. He talks down to other employees and is constantly telling me he is “done” dealing with them although it is vital part of his job and pay. He was well aware of how we do things prior to his employment.

It’s his job to work with all employees to the best he can and mine to take action when felt necessary. I agree with the “if you don’t like it there is the door” statement. And he is well aware we are an “at will” employer and is free to leave at anytime.

I’ll bend a but I ain’t touching my toes.
 
In example he interpered the use for sick leave in case of a family members illness as a possibility for sick leave to be transferable to family members within a workplace... he has no family here. This came from wording within the notice that stated “sick leave may be used for family members”

Yes that is ambiguous
write exactly what you intend "sick leave maybe used to care for a sick family member"

not having ambiguity is to your benefit.
 
Yes that is ambiguous
write exactly what you intend "sick leave maybe used to care for a sick family member"

not having ambiguity is to your benefit.

Who determines ambiguity.... what defines a family member? See where I'm going? When do we determine that we are falling out of objective to subjective how far down the rabbit hole do we need to go that's what I'm asking.

Can you honestly tell me you'd interpret sick leave for family members = I can give family members sick hours? (the question was asked although he has no family here?!)

Wouldn't this be enough for an at will employer to layoff/fire an employee since there is an obvious cause for concern in the communication gap between him and all other personnel? This gap poses a risk both for himself and employer in all future forms of communication both verbal and written.I'm doing my best to not be an a$$ but in all honesty with our workload it would be very easy to let this guy go just for lack of work But posed the question in hopes to gain an opinion on when is too far for a business owner.


Tell me at what point would you stop. Are you a hands to knee guy or are you at the shoelaces.
 
We feel no need to reiterate state laws hence why we directed him to both the posters available in the break room and a link to the labor commissions office if needed. Are we at risk here? We try to keep things simple

Yes, you are. Even Vee Pee's and CEO's seem to FORGET that anything a Company does has to first and foremost operate within Federal, State, and Local law and ordnances.

You CANNOT regurgitate those within a policy - the Fed alone runs about a hundred thousand of dead-tree equivalent pages every YEAR to cover their ever-changing shenanigans.

You do not HAVE to regurgitate them either, though.

What you can do, and IMNSHO, should do, is open any Employee Policy manual, etc with the brief restatement - top of first page - of the simple reminder that this is the case. One short paragraph covers it. Sometimes but a single sentence, but it is a crucial one.

That prevailing laws and regulations limit the scope of what a Company may or may not further option. This is too obvious, ergo also too often ABSENT. Say it. Do not assume that all others will presume it. They will not.

"Cop Out"? Not really.

It truly does get back to all that paper hanging on the wall.

But also a Helluva lot more than that. As said even Department Heads, Divisional VP's, COO, CFO, CEO may need more than just the odd reminder over that enclosing environment that surrounds them.

If the Corporate Counsel in a Board Meeting folds his tent, says "I cannot be a part of this discussion" and leaves the room?

That Member of a bar, somewhere, Officer of a Court, somewhere, just broadcast a signal.

Your scheme may seem an economic win. But only if you do not go to prison for it.
You cannot even DISCUSS illegal actions and still have a legal Company.

So it isn't "just" the bed-roll self-appointed guard-house lawster here. It's the whole shebang.

If it is in good order, the tools are already there to deal with his "problem" or any other. One way or another. All of them legal and proper.

No skullduggery required.

Else not.

More than a few newer, smaller, firms have been VERY well-served, BTW, by a deep read of the policy manuals of older, larger, more experienced, and "generally" wiser firms.

Those are not as hard as all that to get sight of.
 
Send out an addendum saying that there was a typo in the policy.

If you can get a witness to document, When he says "He is done or though doing the duties he is responsible for" , then he voluntary resigned his position.

It can stick had an electrician say something along those lines, his paperwork was done before quitting time.
 
Send out an addendum saying that there was a typo in the policy.

If you can get a witness to document, When he says "He is done or though doing the duties he is responsible for" , then he voluntary resigned his position.

It can stick had an electrician say something along those lines, his paperwork was done before quitting time.

LOL! Fired a lad "instanter" for insubordination one busy day. Paperwork followed, next day.

He takes it all the way to some sort of Maryland Labour Review Board hearing. He, me, our case paperwork, and one grey-haired State munchkin.

The Examiner's eyebrows slowly crawling right up over his scalp as the fire-eed one presents his tale, verbally....finally sez:

"Mr. P__? You have just solidly confirmed that the employer had EVERY right to terminate your employment and would have been sorely remiss on safety grounds to have done otherwise!

WHY ARE YOU BOTHERING THE STATE OF MARYLAND WITH YOUR PERSONALITY PROBLEMS?

And angry rage of response:
I just wanted someone to know how I felt about it!!!

..didn't do his case any good, either!

:)
 
....

This was all just a reminder that was focused on PTO as some employees were requesting paid days off for unscheduled days with no prior notice.
.......

I don't understand...
You are trying to say that sick leave can only be used if you or your family is "actually sick". What defines sick?

I give vacation days and sick days. xx and yy amount of each depending on how long you have worked.
Vacation days must be requested a week in advance in writing and can be turned down to be used at another time if say others have the same time off.
Sick days can be used at the drop of a hat and the only stipulation is that you call in before your starting time.
The fact that the fish are biting is a valid reason to use a sick day. We don't call them sick days anymore, we call them personal days.
Unsure as to what your policy is trying to restrict.

Unpaid sick leave is another story and if you have 50 or more employees there are FMLA considerations.
Bob
 
What defines sick?
Point. Companies have been distancing themselves from the old business of wanting Doctor's notes or making surprise "sympathy house calls" for Donkey's Years. Privacy issues. Not all medical care is a simple head cold.

Not at work is not at work, have to cover the tasking, regardless of "why".

I give vacation days and sick days. xx and yy amount of each depending on how long you have worked.
Vacation days must be requested a week in advance in writing and can be turned down to be used at another time if say others have the same time off.
Sick days can be used at the drop of a hat and the only stipulation is that you call in before your starting time.
The fact that the fish are biting is a valid reason to use a sick day. We don't call them sick days anymore, we call them personal days.

and.... Averages matter, thus those of each person compared to such. If my company average is 4 1/2 %, and Sad Sack is at 12%, I may have to terminate Sad Sack to keep my process running as it must. Doesn't matter WHY he is sick.

If Favored Son is sick for two years, I may not bless Favoured if I'd not bless all others, same situation.

Even-handedness matters. Consistency matters.

ADHERENCE to your own policy matters. Fail to adhere on Suzy First-Problem? That policy has been de facto set aside for all subsequent violators. Y'have to rewind and try again. Terminating EITHER the chronic or acute denier may be required.

Limits on carry-forward may be offset in some firms by paying-out a percentage or even ALL of the value after a certain number of years and days. Likewise at termination-time.

Folk should not be either unduly hard-done by if in poor health, but see "averages", nor feel that the blessing of better health - or greater dedication - has been unacknowledged, even punished, but see "favoritism".

The other little nit is that a firm's books are meant to show accumulated leave, each category, as a LIABILITY, each period. We bean-counter folk do not like liabilities to get overly large nor of unpredictable timing as to settlement.

Balancing act, HR is. A perpetual one.

HR munchkins are "school trained" in these things, State by State. Or had best get their skates on and go study-up. It is actually a "real job", not a parking place for relatives or Executive bedcoverings. Small firm may be well-served to hire it, contracted for in chunks. Workload of compliance filings alone can be onerous. More so if you are ignorant OF them.
 
Who determines ambiguity.... what defines a family member? See where I'm going? When do we determine that we are falling out of objective to subjective how far down the rabbit hole do we need to go that's what I'm asking.

Can you honestly tell me you'd interpret sick leave for family members = I can give family members sick hours? (the question was asked although he has no family here?!)

Yes giving sick leave to another employee is done at some places, especially if there is a serious
illness or injury.
My wife actually works at one such place.
So yes it could be interpreted that way.

That you get defensive about your poor wording instead of going OK,
maybe that could be worded better is a problem.
sure there is some ball breaking going on.

Then again lawyers make their living off poorly written documents.

And then you could post it in your break room with the other legal notices.

To make every thing stick a well written employee handbook is the ticket.
 
Company handbook is your best tool.

Make one in clear language then take it to the labor enforcement folks and review it fully.

Anything like sick leave discuss fully as depending on how granted determines if earned benefit or granted benefit and it matters greatly which is which.

They will help you write your guide to where you have clear legal language to support your policy and you know your policy is legal.

They also will supply all supporting documents that you use to make your hr manual as well.

Folks here can only make suggestions...you need to work with your local labor enforcement to get local correct policy made.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
I can't believe business owners must live like this.

Document everything he does until you have enough to strap him to a jetrocket(:D) and light the fuse.....Preferably point said rocket the opposite direction of the Labor Dept, will take him a little longer to get there because that's where he's headed.

Guy sounds like nothing but a headache. I have zero patience for people like this, and would stomp that fire out first chance I could get away with it....Nice and legal like of course.
 








 
Back
Top