Employees dictating when they will work. - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC99 View Post
    While all true, in countries like Europe and here in Australia it is not sustainable long term. We even rely on exploitation of an underclass in another country to allow our countries to survive.
    I'm not sure who you mean by with "we". Which countries do you have in mind and how are they being exploited?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portable Welder View Post
    I've been in steel fabricating, erecting and conveyors for 29 years, I just lost a good employee of 14 years ( He went to work for himself ),
    my 2nd good guy left for $ 25.00 hr with retirement.

    So in desperation I had to hire 2 new guys that are skilled trade guys from the Auto plants that are used to making a $ 100,000.00 a year...
    They also told me they won't be working through the Christmas holidays, I told them ( You gotta do, what you gotta do. ) They got Saturday, Sunday and Monday off and would have gotten the same off for the new year.

    Am I being a scrooge, as far as I'm concerned, they will get there pay checks on Tuesday after the new year and have the rest of 2018 off as well.


    One would think that a 40 year old man with a family would care more about a $ 50,000.00 a year job with medical benefits.
    Depends on what you arranged at hiring time. Our company shuts down through Christmas and all the guys know this, they have to keep back as many days holiday as necessary to cover the gap in paid days.
    We do organise work for the break, but it's always set out in advance and it's not mandatory - they just hike up the pay to make it palatable. I just worked four 12-hr shifts right across Christmas eve, day, boxing day etc and I was happy to take half a months pay for it.

    If you set out the terms and expectations at hiring time then you've every right to be pissed. If you didn't - do it next time.

  3. #43
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    If you got 10 guys waiting outside the gate in the hope of a job,then you can sack as you please.If it takes six weeks to find a replacement,then you got to cop it.The guys I got a job with used to employ morons,young was the only criteria.They would only employ 18-30,and what a bunch of rejects in that age group.It was an achievement to get enough guys thru drug testing to even start on a onsite job.They offered me a manager job after a couple of weeks......because I could write and add up....these kids couldnt.....I said no way.

  4. #44
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    When I'm look at the thread title Employees dictating when they will work. I'm wondering how many employers regard their employees as paid slaves and themselves as kings with divine power?

    Employees should have the same right to dictate terms as an employer. I sure as hell wouldn't work for anyone that thought telling me how to run my life was his right.

    Land of the free? For who?

    https://www.pwc.dk/da/human-ressourc...ur-law-web.pdf

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  6. #45
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    just ignore him .....don't rise to the bait.

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    many places production shuts down christmas week and most stay home
    .
    sure the maintenance guys are asked to work on repairs that week. maintenance guys typically are well paid $25 to $35/hr and 1.5 overtime pay they make more and often they dont work overtime much except those times so since overtime rare many if not most do work that week

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    A lady friend..my buddies wife Sue was the teller manager at a New Jersey bank. These tellers mostly Korean girls (as it was a Korean neighborhood)would make arrangements to cover each other for next day, shifts and even just the afternoon..I guess they did that in their old country ..Sue said every time she hired a new girl the whole cruew would have to be retrained..go figure.

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    You can sell jobs to Asians.Its a nice little tax free earner,but you need to be clued up,or the job will be resold for more than you got.I was even offered $10,000 to marry a mother in law,told the guys wife ,he told her I wanted $20,000.Anyhoo,I used to get $5000 for a forkdriver job,more for a welder job.And the guys were good welders too,just no quals.When the Viets wanted to move on,they would resell the job,and I would get a "transfer fee".

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    ...And then to cornfuse the issue more...Flex Time.

    As touched upon in post's #47 & 48.

    I don't care when you work, as long as the job get's done & out the door
    on time.

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    Part of the issue is this trade like most are finally moving into the 21st century, workers want some flexibility and customers want it too. 9-5 and a half day Friday is more or less a thing of the past. Employers need staff to be flexible not just skill wise in what they do but also when they do it, equally employees want something back in return.

    As a human race the modern world seams to continue to move away from a regular work day of the last century and into something far more fluid. We simply are no longer governed by the hours of day light or the days of the week! But it takes everyone to make that truly work.

    Key thing is to A make it truly worth there time and B make it clear upfront, C you want flexibility you also have to give some, hence yeah you need em to work this weekend, what are you giving them time wise in return. Remember 21'st century, people value both time and money and want a balance of both! You want them to change days, you need to give days in loo during the week so they can still get the house chores done to keep wifey happy!

    As to the welding helmet, thats safety wear, don't provide it and you will get nailed for not providing it!

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    never saw 10 qualified new potential employees trying to get hired that could pass a drug test. most places have trouble finding one person
    .
    there a reason older employees are given more vacation. you either give then the vacation or they will take the time off anyway. usually you job transfer people who like working overtime into those jobs and transfer out people who do not like overtime to jobs with little overtime
    .
    some older people like working overtime cause they are saving into 401K. so i wouldnt assume all older people wont work overtime

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    I've done more than my share of overtime, Saturday's, Sunday's, statutory holidays - the lot. When I started in 1965 we got Xmas day and the day after ( Boxing Day in the UK ) that was it, no New Years Day or anything. So it wasn't really a problem for me. Being in the maintenance field it went with the territory.

    Having said that when it's time for you go up to the big machine shop in the sky and the timekeeper with the long white beard asks you - " If you had your time again what would you do differently ? " I can't see anybody saying - " I wish I would have worked more overtime ".

    Regards Tyrone
    Last edited by Tyrone Shoelaces; 12-27-2017 at 12:08 PM.

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    i work overtime cause at 55 i am putting the max $24,000 into 401K and saving into bank accounts. i saw my father living just on SS ($1100/month) and decided i will not end up like that
    .
    i usually work 10 hours mon-fri and 8 hours on saturday and with benefits easily make over $75,000/yr
    .
    i see younger guys with kids want to stay home with the family and not work as much. i cannot say i blame them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwmachine View Post
    I think 6 hours of actual productive work is about the max that can be expected in an 8 hour day. I know this is veering off topic, but I've been in "right hand man" positions and tried to explain this to the proprietor/owner/Big Boss and found it befuddling that they were still perplexed that a job quoted at x man hours took more timecard hours.
    There have been a number of experiments in Sweden trying out six hour days. My understanding of the results is that efficiency goes way up (output per hour), but it ends up costing more in situations where they need a certain number of bodies on hand all of the time. They also saw a significant drop in sick day usage.

    I used to do work in Japan, and they go very far in the lots-of-hours direction. People work ridiculously long hours, but the per hour productivity is quite low. There's a lot of busy work, because you have to be seen to be working long hours.

    I think the optimum shift length varies with task. I've had times doing FEA work, where 12 hours was easy because each time I ran the model took 5 minutes. I could grab something to drink, walk around, and then when the run was done, get back to it. I could do a long shift and maintain the same level of productivity. On the other hand, I've had times when I was running a huge batch of samples. Things had be be mixed, prepped, polished, etc. I could go at a reasonable pace and the job would take all day. I could also go really fast, keeping multiple balls in the air the whole time, but that was mentally tiring and you can't keep that up all day without an unacceptably high risk of something getting screwed up.

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  20. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    i work overtime cause at 55 i am putting the max $24,000 into 401K and saving into bank accounts. i saw my father living just on SS ($1100/month) and decided i will not end up like that.

    i usually work 10 hours mon-fri and 8 hours on saturday and with benefits easily make over $75,000/yr.
    Good plan. Just don't die at 62. Hard to put a value on free time hours at 55 versus free time hours at 75.

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  22. #56
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    Without knowing the details of this situation, it sounds like there may have been a lack of communication prior to hiring. It's expensive to hire people, and it's expensive (time-wise) to find a job, so it's better for everyone involved if everyone's on the same page before any hiring happens. Things I think are important:

    1) don't assume what a 'standard' or 'normal' schedule is. To a job shop, that may mean 5x8's, mandatory overtime a good portion of Saturdays, and working the week between Christmas and New Years. For someone else, it may mean 5x8's, optional overtime, and closed Christmas week.

    2) overtime. Is it mandatory or optional?

    3) work hours. Is this a shop where you must be clocked in at 7:30 on the dot, lunch is from 1130 to 1230, and you're out the door at 330 exactly, or is it a shop where you need to work 8 hours a day, and they have to include the hours from 9 to 2.

    4) Travel. This is often given as a percentage, but, despite being the same percentage, there is a big difference between being away from home for 2-3 days a month and being away from home for 1 month a year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    .
    .
    not union and with overtime and benefits i make easily over $75,000.yr
    .
    everything is relative. you got 10 workers and you reward those who do what you ask by pay raises and paying 1.5 pay for overtime work remembering every body gets at least 2 weeks (10 days) off plus 10 more days paid holiday pay.
    .
    if 5 out of 10 workers do more what you ask maybe not everything you pay them more and the 5 giving you a hard time you dont reward them for it
    No one gives a crap how much money you make but you bring it up constantly. WTF is wrong with you?

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    Remember...it's getting harder to find people.
    At some point the employer needs to sweeten the pot.
    It's frustrating when the rules of the last decade change and tip power into the workers' hands.

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    I've worked with more than one "old timer" who said they wished they could've done it all over and not worked like a mad-man missing out on many of the accomplishments and functions their kids had. I've always been fortunate enough to have employers who were willing to work with a guy when things came up. But, I proved myself. Didn't walk around like some pre-madonna prick who thought I was the best machinist around and my shit didn't stink. Just came in, did my job and was willing to give a little to get a little. Employer knew it. I knew it. We were both happy. Sounds like there may have been some lack of communication and what was expected from the OP to the employees. But if I were the employer those 2 guys would be out the door based mainly on what sounds to me like an arrogant attitude. Nothing kills an enjoyable shop environment quicker than arrogant workers. IMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by moto367 View Post
    Nothing kills an enjoyable shop environment quicker than arrogant workers ^^^ or arrogant Managers ^^^. IMO
    Fair's fair.

    Our shit DOES stink, you really do NOT want to find out how badly, first-hand, but it comes with the territory that you should not HAVE find out, either, if we but do our job as well as we expect our staff to do their jobs.


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