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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    How big is your shop ? How many other guys do you employ ? Can you afford to carry a guy ?

    I once worked at a place that had a big cargo lift ( elevator in the US ). You got in and pressed the button on the panel for the floor you needed, you had the choice of three floors.
    One day I get in the lift and there's a young guy sat on a stool by the control panel. He says " What floor would you like ? ".
    I say " Top floor please " and he pressed the button for me.

    Turns out he'd had a motorcycle accident and he was recovering. His old man was a manager in the Sales dept. The lad was there for 6 months then all of a sudden he was gone and the lift went back to being serve yourself.

    Very philanthropic, did I mention the company had 3,000 employees ? They could carry a lame duck for 6 months, can you ?

    Regards Tyrone.
    If'n I had that gig...I'd bring a large cooler with me, and sell soda's whilst
    you ride.
    Buy them by the case in the store, and undercut the pop machine in the lunch room.

  2. #42
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    This must be why PM's so popular, ………………………...machinists don't have friends

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  4. #43
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    Aside from the social dangers of hiring relatives or friends, it does not sound like this fellow would long survive operating any machine tool.

    In the late 1970s, when I lived in Baltimore, a semi-girlfriend wanted to start a business making shelves I had designed and built for my own use, that could be disassembled into a pile of planks and verticals by removing a bunch of maple dowels - perfect for a student who moved periodically, and way better and better looking than planks on stacked cinder blocks. And cheap to boot.

    The problem was that she was simply was not heavy enough or strong enough to safely handle the bucking 1.5 or 2 HP router used to slot the shelf planks to accommodate the verticals. So, when I folded tent and moved to Boston, I took the router and templates with me.

    She was not happy with me, but I knew that if she tried to do that kind of work by herself, she would soon lose control and maim herself. She simply did not understand the danger.

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    On the other hand if he guy seems sensible and you have enough Just-follow-orders work you might say you have an open two weeks he could fill. Tell him he will be working for the supervisor not for you and if the super says "Your out" then out the door you go.
    After two weeks you may find him valuable.

    Agree friends can be the biggest headache. Seems they often cant understand "Just do your Job".

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  8. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    This must be why PM's so popular, ………………………...machinists don't have friends
    Don't worry, you have lots of friends.... that is why we poke at you.
    Now I will have to wonder why almost all of my "friends" are machinists, in manufacturing or code slingers....... that's a disturbing thought.


    Hiring friends and family comes with ground rules.
    1) I will expect more from you than anyone off the street.
    2) You will get hit harder than others if you make a mistake , refer to rule 1.
    3) Work time and off time should never be confused.
    4) Everyone in the building will think you have an advantage, be jealous and try to stab you in the back.

    Managing #4 can be the biggest challenge. This one also shows up if you hire a nobody and they become a outside of work friend.
    My Dad told me in no short terms and pissed off, "You can not be friends with any of your employees". I thought that kind of harsh but would find the problems.
    Bob

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  10. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    I might add, that IME employing friends, is almost without exception - a bad idea.
    And having friends as business "partners"....Count on at least 75% ending badly.

  11. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by car2 View Post
    And having friends as business "partners"....Count on at least 75% ending badly.
    Been there,done that. I know for a fact that my friends would never let me down. So why did I spend thirteen days in the High Court? Yes, I won but it still cost me a lot,no, make that a LOT of money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by klemchuk View Post
    The guy I'm talking about has been a chef and an accountant for all his working life.
    Those are some seriously obscure occupations. I can see why he can't find another job in those fields.

    But in all seriousness, it makes total sense for him to work at a machine shop. CNC machines are like deep fryers. They practically run themselves. "Ding" fries are done. Then count the money. Everything he's done up until this point in his life has prepared him to become an expert machinist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radar987 View Post
    Those are some seriously obscure occupations. I can see why he can't find another job in those fields.

    But in all seriousness, it makes total sense for him to work at a machine shop. CNC machines are like deep fryers. They practically run themselves. "Ding" fries are done. Then count the money. Everything he's done up until this point in his life has prepared him to become an expert machinist.
    I hope that's at least a little tongue in cheek.

  14. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    I hope that's at least a little tongue in cheek.
    I don't. I hope it's a lot tongue in cheek.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    This must be why PM's so popular, ………………………...machinists don't have friends
    Sonny Liston had a view on friends - " You Can't Put Friends In The Bank ".

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  18. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    If'n I had that gig...I'd bring a large cooler with me, and sell soda's whilst
    you ride.
    Buy them by the case in the store, and undercut the pop machine in the lunch room.
    Good thinking, How about the proverbial hot dog stand as well ? The lift was big enough, you could get large fork lift trucks in it easily.


    Regards Tyrone.

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  20. #53
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    Chefs and accountants (helpers?) tend to make pretty good money here in America.

    After all, we love to eat out, spending money on a meal and some drinks like it’s the end of the world. It always blows my mind how much people spend stuffing their guts!

    And, most Americans are too stupid and lazy to do their own taxes (small businesses included), so we dump all our receipts and records on an accounting firm, and pay them huge money for relatively simple work.

    So, the guy has probably been spoiled working in the restaurant and accounting industries. Which wouldn’t exactly be a good thing, bringing him into the real world of making things from metal in a highly-competitive industry.

    He chose those career paths, he needs to stay in them.

  21. #54
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    The friend asking the OP for a job surely must know that he would be a bad fit in a machine shop. Someone earlier mentioned that in order to stay on unemployment you have to ask several places every month for work. That's what I'm thinking is the case here.

    In any case, hiring a former chef to work in a machine shop is a sure bet for an accident. "Danger Will Robinson."

  22. #55
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    "Chefs and accountants (helpers?) tend to make pretty good money here in America."

    accountants... yes . chefs not so much.

    if you're talking some "chef" @ a grand hotel or corporate restaurant ... maybe .

    the truth is that most "chefs" in a restaurant that holds less than 3-400 diners at once are stuck with being chef,
    kitchen manager , general manager , and whatever they can pile on. all on a fixed salary ...= 60-90 hours a week .

    anyone who's been there knows that the fantasy of " the chef creating a tasty new dish" doesn't exist.
    ......more like food costs, profits , portion sizes, cooking/prep time , spoilage..... "chef"= profit and loss statements
    that have to be surpassed.. or else . you'd make a lot more money if you cleaned yourself up, bought some nice clothes,
    and practiced some social manners... to be a waiter in said fantasy gourmet restaurant . $50-$70k if you're good.

    back to the op... yeah..the world needs ditch diggers too....... don't even engage him. he'll get hurt and sue you .
    friendship won't matter to him if he loses a finger, eye, or worse.

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  24. #56
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    Commercial chef: Used to working around hot, sharp, and dangerous objects. Good at multitasking. Able to consistently produce quality products rapidly.

    Accountant: Able to decipher and follow obscure and complex rules and regulations. Excellent arithmetic skills. Comfortable using complex computer programs.

    Both: Attention to detail. Reliable.

    (You can add to the list.)

    Some of these things may be more important than specific machinist skills, which can be taught if he really wants to become a machinist.

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    klemchuk

    I don't own a shop but I've gotten two of my friends jobs at shops where I've worked.

    One was was along the lines of your buddy...i told the management up front that he wasn't very mechanical, but wasnt a dumbass and learned fast (both true). They started him off at the bottom (as expected), cleaning up, checking coolant, deburring saw cuts...that kind of stuff. To make a long story short he thought the work was beneath him and blamed me for the "shit" job...even though it payed better than waiting tables. We don't talk anymore.

    The other guy was very mechanically inclined and was no stranger to trade work and starting at the bottom. This was at a different shop but the same deal, he started doing the "bitch work". He didn't mind and left on good terms once he found a mechanic job at a dealership (he is an ASE mechanic). We still knock a few beers down every week.

    I think you did the right thing and if he's a honestly a real friend, he'll get over it. But if you had hired him and then had to let him go...that's a pretty sure fire way to lose a friend.

  26. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yan Wo View Post
    Commercial chef: Used to working around hot, sharp, and dangerous objects. Good at multitasking. Able to consistently produce quality products rapidly.

    Accountant: Able to decipher and follow obscure and complex rules and regulations. Excellent arithmetic skills. Comfortable using complex computer programs.

    Both: Attention to detail. Reliable.

    (You can add to the list.)

    Some of these things may be more important than specific machinist skills, which can be taught if he really wants to become a machinist.
    Yes, but it sounds as if he failed at both.....

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  28. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Yes, but it sounds as if he failed at both.....
    Not necessarily.

    Ford chopped a lot of white collar heads recently. A buddy of mine, an accountant, was one of them. Certainly capable enough, but that might have been part of the problem. Too good (read: well-compensated) for entry-level stuff, not ready and/or any need for management at the time. Those are the first to go...

    The conclusion-jumping is strong in this thread. OP: only you know if he's looking for work due to some innate struggle to be a productive individual, or just caught up in unfortunate circumstances.

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    I had a neighbor ask me for a job when he lost his job . I am not a machinist, home shop only but often ran work for construction companies. He was a vice president of a small software firm and no experience in construction. I offered to give him a job as a laborer. Apparently he thought the job was below him and wanted me to hire him as a carpenter. I told him this is skilled work that he did not have the aptitude to do. College guy that could not read a rule. I told him , laborer or nothing. He opted for nothing.
    His wife father paid the rest of his mortgage so he would not lose his home. 3 years later 2016 he finally got a job in his field.


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