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  1. #81
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    It boils down to one of two things: either you're a business or a private social service. Decide which one you are and base your decision on it. Note: if you already have family in the business than you're already a PSS.

    The Dude

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    If you hire people you will have problems.
    Does not matter if friends, family or strangers.
    Bob

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  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    If you hire people you will have problems.
    Does not matter if friends, family or strangers.
    Bob
    I could not agree more but strangers are easier to remove if they are not up to scratch.

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  6. #84
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    Several years ago I got a job that had a hard deadline or else. (don't they all) I asked a friend of mine if he wanted to help me cut steel for a few days. I purposely only asked him for a short term gig because I figured that once I had some steel ahead I could keep up with the flow by having the saw run when I was doing other machining jobs.

    Some of the stock was fairly large and on my import 7X12 saw it took upwards of 10 minutes to make one cut. I asked him if he could cut some of the small stuff with the 4X6 saw while other saw was running. No go. "I don't run two machines at once". Heck, I would run two saws out of sheer boredom if nothing else. I can't think of many things that make a day drag on like watching a saw make ten minute cuts but that's just me.

    I honored the few day commitment and then cut it all myself after that. We're still friends but haven't worked together since.

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  8. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    I could not agree more but strangers are easier to remove if they are not up to scratch.
    I have to ask ....why?
    They are all people who need a job, are you playing favorites from some emotional or blood connection?
    Why is one easier than the other for you?
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    Several years ago I got a job that had a hard deadline or else. (don't they all) I asked a friend of mine if he wanted to help me cut steel for a few days. I purposely only asked him for a short term gig because I figured that once I had some steel ahead I could keep up with the flow by having the saw run when I was doing other machining jobs.

    Some of the stock was fairly large and on my import 7X12 saw it took upwards of 10 minutes to make one cut. I asked him if he could cut some of the small stuff with the 4X6 saw while other saw was running. No go. "I don't run two machines at once". Heck, I would run two saws out of sheer boredom if nothing else. I can't think of many things that make a day drag on like watching a saw make ten minute cuts but that's just me.

    I honored the few day commitment and then cut it all myself after that. We're still friends but haven't worked together since.
    This seems to be how it is lately. I remember taking a job some years back running (loading parts really) parts on a 5axis robot line. The parts took almost 3 hours to run and about an hour to check and fill out inspection reports. So I had 2 hours of nothing. I asked my boss for something else to do and he was like "it's fine, just keep that machine going"

    One night I did come in and he asked me if I had time to cut some stock. I was like YES PLEASE! The next day he was shocked I got it all done. I was just sort of scratching my head because not only did I have 2 hours downtime between cycles, but the saw was automatic so I only needed to go get parts every half hour or so and deburr them and stack them in a box.

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  11. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    I have to ask ....why?
    They are all people who need a job, are you playing favorites from some emotional or blood connection?
    Why is one easier than the other for you?
    Bob
    If it is a stranger that you remove from the job then there are no comebacks from family or friends. If it is a friend or family member then everybody wants to know the ins and outs of a ducks arse. Some will see your point and agree with you,others dead the opposite. Which ever way it goes you cannot win,and,after all it is your business and livelihood that is being affected,they can just walk away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by powerglider View Post
    If you needed a job would he have hired you as Sous-Chef?
    Aa a Sous-Chef - no, But he might have hired him as a kitchen hand.

    It is probably not a good idea to employ friends or family, but sometimes one can try to help a mate. He might have been asking for some work to do until he can find a more suitable and permanent position.

    We need a lot more information about the situation before passing judgement on this one.

    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    If it is a stranger that you remove from the job then there are no comebacks from family or friends. If it is a friend or family member then everybody wants to know the ins and outs of a ducks arse. Some will see your point and agree with you,others dead the opposite. Which ever way it goes you cannot win,and,after all it is your business and livelihood that is being affected,they can just walk away.
    Exactly right! Friends, unlike regular employees who work for you in your business, will have inroads into your personal life. If things go sour, they can hurt you on a personal level to a degree much greater than an employee with whom you have no personal relationship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman109 View Post
    Exactly right! Friends, unlike regular employees who work for you in your business, will have inroads into your personal life. If things go sour, they can hurt you on a personal level to a degree much greater than an employee with whom you have no personal relationship.
    That is exactly what I wanted to say,thank you.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman109 View Post
    Exactly right! Friends, unlike regular employees who work for you in your business, will have inroads into your personal life. If things go sour, they can hurt you on a personal level to a degree much greater than an employee with whom you have no personal relationship.
    My dad fired me four times.
    I've terminated my best friends yet they remain the people I'd trust with my life.
    Not sure why you feel the hurt more for friends and family more than someone you hardly know.
    I think both are not doing so well when losing a job.
    My biggest hurt or pain in this process came with people I only had on board for three months.
    The are five or six of those that I wonder if I did not do the correct training or supervision.

    Once you get to be an employer those employed are not cannon fodder no matter how difficult.
    Every failed employee is partly on you.
    Whose job was it to turn them into good workers? Is that why you get paid the big bucks?
    Bob

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    Give him the shop tour for a couple days - but only academically about processes materials operations personnel, then - make sure he only comes to work wearing a white collared shirt and then give him a small desk where he can take over to do w finance accounting purchasing. Of course have him take over all your taxes. And have him try a start in sales marketing to expand your business. Give him an opportunity to be creative - but pay him in some way for the value added or savings created. If he is worth a lick he will bust his ass to create value. Otherwise he isn't any good for you. These aspects are more aligned to his professional talents. Or if he wants to get his hands dirty then obviously pay him an 18 year old's laboring rate, put him on a start towards familiarity w/ ops on a machine and just deal w/ the steep learning curve, danger, and many a garbaged part. That will reinforce the sink-or-swim mentality he'll wrestle with and how he's wasting your money and time if he doesn't invest in being the best.

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    A chef and a accountant.....I would have hired him to cook the books.

  20. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    This seems to be how it is lately. I remember taking a job some years back running (loading parts really) parts on a 5axis robot line. The parts took almost 3 hours to run and about an hour to check and fill out inspection reports. So I had 2 hours of nothing. I asked my boss for something else to do and he was like "it's fine, just keep that machine going"

    One night I did come in and he asked me if I had time to cut some stock. I was like YES PLEASE! The next day he was shocked I got it all done. I was just sort of scratching my head because not only did I have 2 hours downtime between cycles, but the saw was automatic so I only needed to go get parts every half hour or so and deburr them and stack them in a box.

    I'll give you the why...and it is a sad comment.

    Giving you another task opens the door for excuses...
    You know I was loading the saw and didn't have time to check everything on that part calling for a full inspection.
    I would have stopped the machine when it was making that weird squealing sound...but I was deburing that saw part.


    Sometimes its put your hands in the air, give a person one task be happy they take care of that 1 task and get on with things.

    I have had similar problems at times when guys have a lazy day...usually not the case or a problem. But sometimes, I leave it as, need to take a slow day...RUN this one and that one, shut that machine down. Better not to make scrap out of a machine or the parts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    I have to ask ....why?
    They are all people who need a job, are you playing favorites from some emotional or blood connection?
    Why is one easier than the other for you?
    Bob
    Simple as family and friends are strings attached people.

    The stranger goes their way, I go mine and chances are good out paths will never cross again.



    Not often the case with other people.


    My wife's cousin's kid took a job with me...wasn't long before he said...hey, come on we're family. I immediately straightened that out with- - Between the time you punch in and the time you punch out, we are not family, you are an employee and get treated as such. There is no special treatment.

    That was brought up by him at a family dinner...I smiled and said that's right. My inlaws looked mortified, but his parents said GooD, that's the way it should be and the subject was changed.

    It could have gone the other way...

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  23. #96
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    That is tricky. When a friend asks something like that they know it has risks. They could know how it could be a problem also.

    The fact he likes you enough to ask you this shows he trusts you.

    Maybe find something for him to do for you. It might be the case he needs something temporary to tide him over. You will not know how it would turn out if you did not hire him.

    I do tend to believe it is best to avoid hiring a friend though. Even though friends can often be partners from the start just fine.

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    Every reply has referenced drudge factory jobs........I used to employ and work with friends and acquaintances all the time,because I knew their capabilities and quirks......I wouldnt start anyone I didnt know,without a recommendation from a trusted source.....Then I got a job with a crowd who employed dummies off the street,and "trained" them......what a nightmare of idiots ,incompetents,and terminally lazy millennials...........and a few very good people.


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