Functional Iliteracy - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    "Schools which are mostly run by not the best and brightest push some towards upper levels..."

    Well, it's a good thing this is going to stop.

    Remember that universal public education was pushed on us in the US by the evil labor unions. The eventual
    result of that was the US federal goverment controlling all the schools in america using the evil department of
    education. This is a huge waste of taxpayer money used to press the liberal agenda.

    The recent appointment of a charter school expert will ensure that parents have a real choice from now on. They
    can now elect to defund public schools so that universal literacy will effectively be a thing of the past.

    WHAT a relief.

    At the same time math programs will be stripped of the liberal new math and kids will once again be limited to
    adding and subtracting.

    History will be now confined to the war of northen agression with a minor in Klan Studies.

    Welcome to the new world of better education. Hope you folks all can git along without employees who can
    read from now on!
    As usual, Jim mistakes the charter school solution for the problem, which is the failure of the public schools to educate, causing parents to want an alternative.....

    Same thing in Australia. I went to a public high school where I was basically bored witless and watched the standards drop in the years following. My children went elsewhere.

    You want institutionalised functional illiteracy? Programs like 'no child left behind' are *guaranteed* to deliver it, because the easiest way of achieving that goal is to level *down* the bright ones.

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post

    You want institutionalised functional illiteracy? Programs like 'no child left behind' are *guaranteed* to deliver it, because the easiest way of achieving that goal is to level *down* the bright ones.

    PDW
    So the master plan should be to leave 30% in the dirt and concentrate on the upper 20%?
    Not saying it was implemented well but maybe a good goal?
    A very big problem I see here is that teachers and professors don't make the salaries the private sector pays.
    Hence, you get what you pay for outside of the few who really, really want to teach and will eat cardboard for dinner and be happy with it.
    Not much of our teaching staff in the US from top to bottom are rocket scientist level people.
    I oh-so wanted to be a teacher or prof once...found out about the job and pay....
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Not saying it was implemented well but maybe a good goal?
    It was a silly goal. The Procrustean bed is an old story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave D View Post
    Some contributing factors for being illiterate:
    1. Home life not at all like the Waltons (abuse, neglect, nutrition).
    2. Low academic expectations from home.
    3. Poor role models in regards to learning...anything.
    4. Bad match between learning style and instruction.
    5. Frequent family moves.
    6. Significant learning disabilities.
    7. Having to be the parent to siblings.
    8. Poverty.


    Dave
    If you're an adult, those are just excuses. The biggest contributing factor is being a fuckin loser.

    I'll make an exception for someone that has severe learning disabilities. Some brains are not capable of certain things no matter how hard someone tries. No exceptions for mild learning disabilities. Those folks just have to try a lot harder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jashley73 View Post
    Having a 3 year old daughter, this really scares the crap out of me.

    I went to public school in a widely respected school district, but the "tone" of the curriculum is absolute garbage. Having no practical grounds to understand what you're learning about, means that all the "theory" stuff just goes in one ear, rattles around just long enough to pass the test, and then right out the the other ear.

    Somehow I managed to pass high school and had no idea what Trigonometry was, until my machinist's apprenticeship. The trig teacher was a pretty accomplished moldmaker, and a very good teacher. But perhaps the most important ingredients to that entire class' success, was that we had a practical foundation, on which to build our understanding of trig.

    He gave us two examples that really framed the importance of knowing trig. 1- You have to layout a circular bolt-pattern on a piece, but have nothing but a surface plate, angle plate, height gage, and a drill press. 2- You have to cut a tapered ring-groove in a piston on the lathe, and the only way to know how deep & wide to make the groove, is to measure over wires.

    He also had a website, where he worked through every homework problem through the entire class, step by step. The idea was that if you were stuck on a homework assignment, you could go to his website, and see exactly how to step thru it... http://www.joesmathpage.com/

    If we had more teachers with that kind of dedication, while also showing the practical need for why that skill was important, then there's no telling how much better off we'd be as a country.
    I had a few conference calls with our all-knowing academia bosses in the state capitol last year regarding a "practical" math class for HS students. This ties directly to industry. There is a lot of push at the local level to get practical math back in the curriculum of HS. The powers that be in the state capital agreed and were going to allow us a pilot program --- until the STATE UNIVERSITY was consulted and the DR's of Academia there squashed it flat. A big issue is that the people in charge of academics have done NOTHING but academics - they have no idea what is actually required out in the real world to earn an honest living.

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Welden View Post
    If you're an adult, those are just excuses. The biggest contributing factor is being a fuckin loser.
    Interesting POV.
    To some if you did not make it though your 4 year degree, got accepted into Harvard and are now making 7 figures+ you are a slacker making excuses.
    No I did not. Yes I receive this criticism.
    Life deals different hands to all of us and we should not judge others as we have not walked the long path in their shoes.
    What It's Like - Everlast - YouTube
    Bob

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    Some 'tells' that I have encountered:

    a. "Can I take the application with me and bring it back tomorrow?"
    b. Proudly proclaiming "I've never been on the internet and won't ever have one of those smart phones"

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    Quote Originally Posted by jCandlish View Post
    Illiteracy can be cultural. Male Gypsies for example.
    Yeah, but fuck gypsiess, seriously. I try not to be prejudice, but every stereotype about them is so true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Houndogforever View Post
    Yeah, but fuck gypsiess, seriously. I try not to be prejudice, but every stereotype about them is so true.
    Damn fine musicians, and beautiful women.

    I spent some time reading for a Gypsy mason. That the males don't read is a cultural marker that binds their tribes together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Interesting POV.
    To some if you did not make it though your 4 year degree, got accepted into Harvard and are now making 7 figures+ you are a slacker making excuses.
    No I did not. Yes I receive this criticism.
    Life deals different hands to all of us and we should not judge others as we have not walked the long path in their shoes.
    Bob
    I have very low tolerance for people that don't even achieve the most basic of life skills. A person better have a really good fuckin excuse for me to cut them slack. I don't give a rats ass if you grew up in poverty or whatever else. There were fuckin slaves that learned to read and they had to do in secret. If they got caught with a book they'd get beat or killed. Some fuckin dude in this day and age can't learn to read? Give me a break.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jCandlish View Post
    Damn fine musicians, and beautiful women.

    I spent some time reading for a Gypsy mason. That the males can't read is a cultural barrier that binds their tribes together.
    I have no tolerance for dip shit religions and cultures that don't let someone learn basic life skills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Welden View Post
    I have no tolerance for dip shit religions and cultures that don't let someone learn basic life skills.
    As a diaspora the Romani people have maintained their heritage for over 1000 years. Certainly maintaining their culture is worth something. The women are literate, and the men are numerate, even if they pretend to give over control of the finances to the matriarch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jCandlish View Post
    As a diaspora the Romani people have maintained their heritage for perhaps as many as 1000 years. Certainly maintaining their culture is worth something.
    Some cultures and traditions are absolute garbage. Some followers of Islam have a tradition of cutting the clitoris off their females.There are many other awful things they do. How about the tradition of murdering gays?

    Gotta respect that huh? DON'T JUDGE!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Welden View Post
    DON'T JUDGE!!
    Judge this:


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    Maybe I can beat John to it : a loser. Squandered his talent for a loser lifestyle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    Maybe I can beat John to it : a loser. Squandered his talent for a loser lifestyle.
    Been there, done that. Starting your own shop is the entry to this hole.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Houndogforever View Post
    Yeah, but fuck gypsiess, seriously. I try not to be prejudice, but every stereotype about them is so true.
    Damn, they say us Southerners are prejudiced!!! Stereotypes are often wrong.. Not going into details, but I know some Romanians that have much more smarts and drive than I do.. Came here with nothing, and became successful.. I guess racism/prejudice is OK for some people...

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Been there, done that. Starting your own shop is the entry to this hole.
    Bob
    In my book youre a winner.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave D View Post
    With extra and appropriate support the vast majority of struggling readers will improve irregardless of age. Some may only learn to become functional readers. For a rare few there will be minimal improvement.

    So the good news is that most can improve their reading substantially. The bad news is that life has likely already put huge roadblocks in their way, its hard to improve without appropriate help and you have to be pretty darn motivated to go back and do something that has been very, very painful. As others have already said its sad.

    Most struggling adult readers have not had a fair kick at the can due to things like home life and the wrong reading instruction methods. Phonics are important but not so many years ago there commonly were sight reading and other reading programs as well. Some people will never be able to recall phonetic rules efficiently but that doesn't stop most of them from learning how to sight read.


    Dave
    Sorry, the "Sight-See-Say" method that was in vogue for a while in US public schools is known as the main culprit for much of today's adult functional illiteracy, specifically the sort where the individual makes several wrong guesses at a word. This shows up embarrassingly while reading aloud, and is a warning sign that critical instructions, no matter how carefully written, may not be understood. Parents who realized that little Johnny was reading aloud the word "birthday" when the text said "Saturday" would confront the teacher only to be told, "Oh, that's just because he learned those words at the same time." That shit gave considerable impetus to home-schoolers and the school voucher movement.

    Phonics are the basis of Western languages. If you learn phonics, you can pronounce any word correctly without needing to know what it means, AND you can ask what it means without having to spell it out. That is especially critical in a foreign language, particularly at the comp lit level. Without phonics, forget it.

    And, FFS, it's "regardless."

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  24. #60
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    John I fully agree with you that:
    - some just squander their lives and that having relatively minor problems is not an excuse.
    - some brains are not capable of certain things no matter how hard someone tries.
    - folks (often sic) just have to try a lot harder.

    In addition to Learning Disabilities would you add FAE, FAS, mental health as well? I have known girls who dropped out of elementary school to take care of siblings e.g. no choice. After all, in some cultures/families they are only girls. I'm assuming like me although we both tried so very hard we didn't get pregnant either. Not fair, not easy. Not all significant learning difficulties are visible.

    Dave


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