General Laibility Insurance anyone? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Some folks mentioned above you are making parts to customer specification. That might get you through some places... but probably not.

    I tried that when I was shopping around for insurance end of last year. The response was, from multiple providers, they wanted a list of customers and parts machined for the last 4 years.

    If you make a pencil holder for Ford, you supply parts to the automotive business. Does not matter if the part goes on a car.

    If you make a coat rack for the company that makes the tooling for the company that makes the assemblies that go on an airplane, you supply parts to the aerospace industry. Does not matter if the part goes on an airplane.

    If you make a widget for the guy that makes thinga ma bobbers for the guy that makes parts for the firearms industry, you supply parts to the firearms industry, and after getting raped for insurance, ITAR will be waiting in line for their turn. Does not matter if the part goes on a firearm.

    I bet I spent near 40 hours on the phone and meeting with insurance people. Absolutely friggin insane. Including almost an hour sitting down and talking about it with my lawyer because I could not believe the universal stupidity I was hearing.

    You probably won't be able to get general liability without product liability. Insurance companies want the whole pie. I tried that initially, because the whole reason I got insurance was for bank requirements for a loan. They could care less about product liability, they just wanted the machine covered for theft or damage.

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    I went through the same experience; I was looking initially for insurance for the machine because of a loan. Everyone wanted me to have general and product liability insurance before they'd look at the machine. "He makes roll bars and skid plates, we won't touch this one" was a response from one of the big names. What the fuck do they want to insure?

    I ended up finding that several builders I talked with all used Great American / Instacover for the machine insurance, much better deal and they don't try to rape you for looking them in the eye.

  3. #23
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    "We don't have insurance for that" It appears that they only want to insure dog walkers, donut bakers, and massage parlors. I saw those listed on web sites.

  4. #24
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    All too often you here/read people talking about trying to acquire insurance for this.....or for that.......in our industry at start up. It's a daunting task if you're unsure of where to go or who to talk with.

    You're basically left at the mercy of the giant corporate salesmen selling you their insurance and insisting that what they are telling and selling you is the way it HAS to be.


    That my friends is a load of crap.



    The best advice I can offer is this.........

    If you have a car insurance agent........call them and ask who they might know who deals with business insurance. Typically they have a colleague they know and deal with and both refer clients to each other.

    Maybe I'm just old school, but I've had the same combined home and auto insurance agency since well......forever...........

    The beauty of it is though, every time I call I always get either the owner or the secretary and they know me, and I know them.

    One day years and years ago I asked myself the same question...........where do I get commercial insurance? Light bulb goes off.....I'll call Nancy at my car insurance agency and ask her.

    Call up Nancy, ask her about business insurance, she says she only deals with home and auto........BUT...........I have a very good friend in Worcester, Steve who deals with all kinds of business insurance.

    Next morning I call up Steve, tell him Nancy recommended him, and ta-da..........the following week I was set up with Commercial Insurance (Nationwide), General Liability Insurance (Nautilus), and Workers Compensation Insurance (Aim Mutual)...........a "one stop fits all" agency.

    So maybe him being a middleman I paid a little more for his offices service..........so be it. Any issues......I call Steve on the phone at his office......Steve talks to me and everything is taken of.

    I simply go back to work and do what I do best, make chips, and Steve goes back to doing what he does best, finding his clients the best insurance to suit their needs.

    His agency is invaluable to me as I have no desire to figure out what I need in "his" insurance world.

    Do yourself a favor........avoid the large giant commercial insurers. Contact a local agency and let them do the leg work you. That's what they are there for.....and it's a beautiful thing!

    Best Regards,
    Russ

    BTW....our general liability policy just renewed November 2018 and it was $718.00 for the year. It's the standard 2mil-1mil-1mil or something like that. Again.....he's the insurance guy.....not me.

  5. Likes Bobw, motion guru, adamm, Ox, Fish On liked this post
  6. #25
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    Absolutely good advise. I have all of my insurance through one company. The are less than 1 mile from my house. Whenever I call or stop in they know me by name, never have to look anything up. They know what I drive, they know my policies. GREAT company.

    I tried the same thing. I have several friends who they have their business insurance through this same company.

    As soon as I said "machine shop" it was like I had turned the place upside down. Knowledgeable helpful people turned into bumbling confused groundhogs. Scared of their own shadows. I asked if they had a business insurance person they could refer me to. Oh sure, we'll get you in touch with him.

    I gross less than $100,000 a year. I wanted $1m liability. $100k property. $1m product liability.

    $580 a month.

    If you want to send me Steve's contact information, I would love to talk to him. My current policy, the CHEAPEST one I was quoted, which is through an ENORMOUS insurance company, in the UNITED KINGDOM, is $2500/yr.

  7. #26
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    Did you go through Lloyds of London?

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    We had insurance for years through a major insurance company. 1M/2M coverage, Workman's comp & Auto.
    Turns out after a few years we come to find out that we weren't even insured for most of what we were doing. The insurance brokers had no clue, just wanted to sell the policy and get paid.
    Since then we switched to Federated. They insure mostly machine shops. They know what is involved in running a shop. They have many options that can be added on. The agents are actually very knowledgeable about how a shop operates and all the pitfalls you have to watch out for. They also handle my commercial auto insurance, which is much cheaper than personal insurance.
    But in the end, they are an insurance company.
    For instance, during hurricane sandy, we lost power for about 8 days. One of my customers pulled a $40,000 dollar job due to time constraints. We have business interruption insurance. The claim was denied because it wasn't my business that was impacted only, but the whole area. On the other hand, driving last year in a snow storm, a branch fell on my pickup and did a lot of damage. Called them that day. I had a check within a week to cover the repairs.

    By the way they have insurance to replace customer supplied material, which i believe is included in the base policy.

    Whoever you use, be sure to read the fine print. Its long and it sucks, but you really need to know what is and is not covered.

    Good Luck
    Sam

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    Quote Originally Posted by DethloffMfg View Post
    Did you go through Lloyds of London?
    Yep.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    I gross less than $100,000 a year. I wanted $1m liability. $100k property. $1m product liability.

    $580 a month.
    I think my policy is about that and I'm under 300/mo with Sentry.

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    2 million general + 1 million marine specific (“marine operators”) is costing me $1700 per year.

    Carpentry/general repair fabrication shop.
    Tools and machinery not covered for loss- but they would write it for additional $6k/yr

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  13. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    Yep.......
    They were my fallback, I have heard that they will pretty much let you write whatever insurance policy you want, and the price reflects that. Only what I've heard. I like the small-town insurer feel I get through my auto insurance. I didn't want to deal with someone across an ocean haha.

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    One man shop grossing 6K last year? Insure yourself. Don't do risky things. Your gross doesn't justify commercial insurance, yet.

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    There is (at least) one Ins Co that is missing from this thread so far.
    Unfortunately - since I suck at werds and names - I can't recall the name off the cuff.
    But they advertise specifically for Machine Shop clients.
    Usually there are many bringing their name up, but so far I've not heard it mentioned.

    Anyone?

    I would think that this board would be a super place for a banner ad for Insurance - targeting small to medium sized machine shops!


    -------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Ox, I think you are thinking of Sentry. We don't use them but the name keeps coming up on this forum.

    Dennis

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    Nope.


    --------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    I am fairly small, one man shop, maybe 100k gross. I use Federated. They have been very reasonable for me on price and coverage. I have general liability, contents and building coverage, an umbrella policy, and my truck carries commercial insurance with them. My monthly payment is around 400 a month.

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    Had this mob get me to quote on a small job. So I send in quote, get the job. Then they send me this list of requirements, one of which was Trades Public Liability Certificate. Ok so onto the search engine to see the nuts and bolts of it. As name suggests, its a builders type insurance. Didn't forsee being hit up for something like that. Don't have It & aint taking it out to do the occasional small job for you. All comes back to the "is it worth it to take out the extra insur?"

    ------------------------------------

    For instance, during hurricane sandy, we lost power for about 8 days. One of my customers pulled a $40,000 dollar job due to time constraints. We have business interruption insurance. The claim was denied because it wasn't my business that was impacted only
    Doh!!!! Got a generator here. Lucky that most of my daily use gear is single phase, so can run entire shop like this all day if it comes down to it. Big enough to drive my small 3ph presses, but only one at a time. Gotten me out of trouble more than once. Cost me 3 grand AUD. Being out here in the sticks, I wouldn't be without one.

  20. #38
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    I'm through Sentry, and they are practically the only insurance co. I could find that would quote for a shop doing any type of manufacturing. Good luck getting general liability only, I tried with at least a dozen companies and it was a no go. My premium is $2,800 for a one man shop, complete with product liability even though I specifically said I don't want it. First they quoted me $1,200, then said that they have a minimum policy price of $2,600. You can imagine my response to that tidbit of info.

    And, like everyone else has mentioned, once you say the "A" word (aerospace), your rates go through the roof.

    Unfortunately, it is a pay-to-play situation, and it's not going to be cheap.

  21. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Nope.
    Probably Federated. I had a salesman from them hound me, but then his quote was more than Cincinnati through the local agent.


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