Going from VMC to HMC ? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    In HMC's you tend to use longer gage length tool holders than VMC's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    ... with a HMC I could run one part number per fixture and swap parts on one fixture well the other is getting wet ,,,
    To be fair, you could do this on a vertical as well. But horizontals come already set up for this, no aftermarket stuff to buy, and the machining configuration itself is better.

    One drawback with horizontals is, the size of the parts needs to match the size of the machine closer. Obviously you can't put big parts on a small machine but in a vertical, you can put small ones on a big machine. If you do that on a horizontal, you can find yourself in a position where you can't get to the part unless you run really long tools or a gigantically oversize tombstone, but then you can't get to the sides of the parts when you index ... you have to look more carefully at the pallet size and travels on a horizontal 'cuz it's pretty easy to get into a corner.

    Verticals do tend to be more versatile, but they don't machine as good.

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    You probably know better than me, but with clever fixturing he should (I don't know the parts bear in mind) be able to bonus parts in the evening / last load of the day. It might require duplicate fixtures with a quick change / zero point system of some sort. Unload a fixture, shoot a bit of air, load next fixture ...that you loaded while those were running, of course
    I thought the exact same thing when I bought my first pallet machine. It didn't work out that way.
    And, I had a shit-ton of parts on the tables. Cycle times were a lot shorter than anticipated. Tool change time really does add up fast.
    Then there were the negatives: come in in the morning to a messy machine, with a bunch of slimy parts that were not blown off while it was still coolant, not concentrate. And, the thing (machine) and the compressor, sat there running all night for basically what? 20 more parts in a day? Not worth it.

    Lights out in mills is for hori's with pools, mold-bases, and 5-x with pools.

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    I have been looking into some used P-Pool machines … I could run 24-7 with one of them ,, The main shop is 30 feet from my front door and I already keep the machines running a lot of evening tell about 10PM or so ,,

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    I have been looking into some used P-Pool machines … I could run 24-7 with one of them ,, The main shop is 30 feet from my front door and I already keep the machines running a lot of evening tell about 10PM or so ,,
    KITAMURA MYCENTER H300 - 5 AXIS MACHINING CENTER FANUC 15M 10K SPINDLE - $24,500 | eBay

    You could easily run this on an RPC. I think realistic value is half what they're asking. These things are tiny. H300 machine footprint is like 6ft by 8ft. chip conveyer and pallet pool obviously make it bigger, but still tiny. Fit in the same area as a small vertical.

    I have one minus the pool and only 30 tool mag on mine. I wish mine had just a couple more inches of Y travel for the parts I make, but it's nice otherwise.

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    DD, If you can swap pallets quickly in your verticals, that isn't much different than a horizontal, besides chip control, rigidity, and number of tools. Unless you can run unattended, but doesn't sound like it due to your load/unload time?

    Maybe you ought to try one of those pierson quick-change pallets or similar on your 4th? That would get you fairly close, without a whole lot of cost.


    How much time do you spend dicking around cleaning chips from inside your VMCs?

    The new EC400 you won't have that problem and the spindle keeps turning. Cutting aluminum, pretty much 100% comes out... but you will still get chips and fines in the tray filter on your coolant tank that'll need to be cleaned, or you can have a nice little flood.

    With long load-time parts, you'll only get 2x the spindle time. But the machine is huge and so is cost. Kind of a break-even there.


    Maybe take another look at workholding? If you can load much faster and run unattended more, then it becomes more advantageous.

    My current problem is similar. One pallet runs in 1.5 hours, but the load time is stupid. Takes me 20-25 minutes busting ass, or one of my regular operators 40-45 mins to get 1.5 hr on the spindle. I can double the part density and load up 6 pallets like this, but the load/unload time still sucks. Currently designing new workholding to reduce loading time before building more pallets.


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