Haas rep stopping in on wednesday
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 34
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    246
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    129
    Likes (Received)
    127

    Default Haas rep stopping in on wednesday

    The New England HFO called this morning and said they will be in my area on wednesday and want to stop by. I am interested in a cnc lathe at some point so I am interested in hearing what he has to say. Mostly about used equipment support.

    Anyone know of anything I should ask them about? I am strictly turning at the moment (Brown and Sharpe) and want a cnc lathe in the future. I do believe a used SL20 or so would be nice to have around for 2 axis work and helping get rid of the backlog that happens from time to time.

    I hear they are great with support and parts availability. Not the most accurate machines but I do believe they would be suitable for the work I currently do. I am sure as soon as he leaves I will have many more questions for him.

    Anyone know of anything I should inquire about?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,292
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    567
    Likes (Received)
    492

    Default

    Make sure you get the extra warranty for free in your negotiations.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

  3. Likes Chazsani liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    246
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    129
    Likes (Received)
    127

    Default

    I didnt even think of the freebies. There is always things that can be hooked up or given leeway on. Things that dont cost the company much money and keep a few bucks in my pocket as well.

    Every little bit adds up. I dont like being nickel and dimed. All adds up in the end. Just like saving 2% net 10. Spend enough and you can have a few employees salary saved by doing just that.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    6,239
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7926
    Likes (Received)
    7988

    Default

    Before you buy a haas, look in to this: CNC | Lathe | GENOS Lathe | GENOS L250II | Affordable Excellence
    It is so much "more" machine for the money.

  6. Likes as9100d, charlie gary, Laurentian liked this post
  7. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Montco, PA
    Posts
    556
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    46
    Likes (Received)
    68

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DanASM View Post
    The New England HFO called this morning and said they will be in my area on wednesday and want to stop by. I am interested in a cnc lathe at some point so I am interested in hearing what he has to say. Mostly about used equipment support.

    Anyone know of anything I should ask them about? I am strictly turning at the moment (Brown and Sharpe) and want a cnc lathe in the future. I do believe a used SL20 or so would be nice to have around for 2 axis work and helping get rid of the backlog that happens from time to time.

    I hear they are great with support and parts availability. Not the most accurate machines but I do believe they would be suitable for the work I currently do. I am sure as soon as he leaves I will have many more questions for him.

    Anyone know of anything I should inquire about?
    If you get a quote from them take the time to reach out to Okuma and see what an equivalent lathe would be. We have a bunch of them and have been very happy.

  8. Likes charlie gary liked this post
  9. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Georgia
    Posts
    9
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    11

    Default

    Please don't buy a Haas lathe. I used to think people were "machine snobs" when they urged people not to buy one, but after wasting 90,000 dollars on one I can tell you to avoid it!

    The first thing I noticed about the machine was that the finish was very thin at the edges. It struck me as a very poor effort. There is hardware rusting on the machine right now. The paint on the catch bin started peeling within weeks of ownership. It is now rusting. The bar feeder failed immediately (first time we tried it). The C axis has stripped the gear due to a hydraulic problem. The spindle will come on while the C is still engaged and I program a dwell just to avoid it. The C axis would not engage this morning. We had to actuate the chuck for 20 minutes to warm up the hydraulics to get the C to engage. The control gives me fits about arcs involving the Y axis and Haas has admitted known control issues with it. The coolant tank is cast into the machine. GALLONS of chips accumulate in the coolant sump. Two weeks ago we took some of the sheet metal off the machine to pull coolant hoses and remove chips. It is now so clogged again that we stopped running until we can take it apart again. The spindle sometimes faults just coming up to speed when no engagement.

    There are less than 500 spindle hours on the machine.

    It is a piece of garbage. My 10 year old waterjet requires less maintenance attention than this 7 month old Haas lathe, and everyone knows what a maintenance hassle a waterjet can be.

    I have never sued anyone in my life but I have actually discussed a lawsuit with my attorney over this machine. It is that terrible.

  10. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    4,511
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1731
    Likes (Received)
    2163

    Default

    DRobs86 just got a lemon. Don't let one bad apple turn you off. Just like one person may buy a Chevy and have nothing but problems, and 5 other people buy them and love them...


    As far as questions to ask, I don't know of anything specific...

    The SL is the older model, the ST are the newer models. I've ran both and not had problems with both cutting and accuracy. We routinely did +/-.0005" diameters in hardened A2 & D2 without issue.

    Also did some turning of 4140ph in 10-12" diameter slugs- that job (families, similar parts) ran more or less non-stop in a circa 2006-2008 SL30.

  11. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Georgia
    Posts
    9
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    11

    Default

    All is well until you get the $90,000 lemon. I am not the only one to be critical of the ST-##Y lathes. There are legitimate engineering flaws that or a polling on a machine that is more or less 100,000 dollars.
    For instance, there is not a sensor to confirm for the control that the hydraulically disengaged C axis servo and drive gear is in the disengaged position. I'm in south Georgia and the hydraulic managed to get cold enough to keep it from working. What happens if you live in the North where it is much colder? Why is there no screening to keep gallons and gallons of chips from entering the coolant tank and saturating the area around the pump. Haas said it's just the way it is. What kind of Mickey mouse engineering is that?

  12. Likes Milland, wheelieking71 liked this post
  13. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    246
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    129
    Likes (Received)
    127

    Default

    Well I am in no way "shopping" right now. Just got a call from them and said sure Ill be here when the rep arrives to hear what he has to say.

    I would in no way spend 90k on a machine right now. If I did a Haas would not even be on the list.

    I have been looking at older 10-20 series machines with magazine bar feeders so I can run them unattended while I attend to my screw machines. I see some for 20-30k on ebay. I know I can get my money back pretty quickly if they run for 6 months. Parts and support seem to be pretty good even for the older machines.

    Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Everyone has ones they love and ones they hate. I say if it will do what it says it should do then I better buy the one that I "need" for the job. I have had all 3 of these trucks over the years and they are all the same to me. I only use them for the jobs that I have and when its done it is not needed.

    I dont sit on things until they die. Just use it for its purpose then discard.

  14. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    6,239
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7926
    Likes (Received)
    7988

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DanASM View Post
    Well I am in no way "shopping" right now. Just got a call from them and said sure Ill be here when the rep arrives to hear what he has to say.

    I would in no way spend 90k on a machine right now. If I did a Haas would not even be on the list.

    I have been looking at older 10-20 series machines with magazine bar feeders so I can run them unattended while I attend to my screw machines. I see some for 20-30k on ebay. I know I can get my money back pretty quickly if they run for 6 months. Parts and support seem to be pretty good even for the older machines.

    Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Everyone has ones they love and ones they hate. I say if it will do what it says it should do then I better buy the one that I "need" for the job. I have had all 3 of these trucks over the years and they are all the same to me. I only use them for the jobs that I have and when its done it is not needed.

    I dont sit on things until they die. Just use it for its purpose then discard.
    You will be wasting good oxygen talking to a haas rep when all you are kinda in the market for is a used machine

    All you need to know is: there is no control support for 2007/8ish (maybe later on lathes) and older.
    If the main processor board fails? It is a $20k repair bill to get the machine back in service.
    The window of viable used haas machines is pretty much 2008-2014.
    If it has an analog spindle load meter, there is no control support (quickest/easiest way to tell at a glance).

    In my experience, haas lathes really do suck. Nobody has even mentioned the garbage tailstock yet.

  15. Likes ranchak liked this post
  16. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    4,511
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1731
    Likes (Received)
    2163

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    You will be wasting good oxygen talking to a haas rep when all you are kinda in the market for is a used machine

    All you need to know is: there is no control support for 2007/8ish (maybe later on lathes) and older.
    If the main processor board fails? It is a $20k repair bill to get the machine back in service.
    The window of viable used haas machines is pretty much 2008-2014.
    If it has an analog spindle load meter, there is no control support (quickest/easiest way to tell at a glance).

    In my experience, haas lathes really do suck. Nobody has even mentioned the garbage tailstock yet.
    What is wrong with the tailstock? I've never had a problem with them. Yes, a little odd to setup, but they work fine IMO.

    And I've held tenths (.0002-.0005") easily enough...

  17. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    411
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    67
    Likes (Received)
    236

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Before you buy a haas, look in to this: CNC | Lathe | GENOS Lathe | GENOS L250II | Affordable Excellence
    It is so much "more" machine for the money.
    Unless it's changed dramatically over the last 5 years, the Genos lathe falls well behind the mills that share its namesake.

    My experience was that the build quality and performance were significantly less than one would expect for a Japanese branded machine. It was not the same outstanding value as the M560 or M460.

  18. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Medina OH
    Posts
    2,199
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    270
    Likes (Received)
    1067

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    What is wrong with the tailstock? I've never had a problem with them. Yes, a little odd to setup, but they work fine IMO.

    And I've held tenths (.0002-.0005") easily enough...
    The tailstock on a brand new haas at my friends place of employment was several thousandths off center... like .003-.005". Brand new, service tech was installing it. My friend asked the service tech to fix it before leaving and he looked at him stunned! You just program out the taper he said...

  19. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    6,239
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7926
    Likes (Received)
    7988

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    What is wrong with the tailstock? I've never had a problem with them. Yes, a little odd to setup, but they work fine IMO.

    And I've held tenths (.0002-.0005") easily enough...
    3 of the 5 haas lathes I have ran that had tailstocks would not hold position. They would slowly drift away.
    And, just like Fal's buddy, I had a brand new ST30 delivered at my last place of employment, where the TS was off center.
    I don't remember how much. But, I do remember the tech bitching that he was sick and tired of aligning TS's on brand new machines.
    And, I agree, the integral coolant sump is a royal PITA.

  20. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    6,239
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7926
    Likes (Received)
    7988

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    Unless it's changed dramatically over the last 5 years, the Genos lathe falls well behind the mills that share its namesake.

    My experience was that the build quality and performance were significantly less than one would expect for a Japanese branded machine. It was not the same outstanding value as the M560 or M460.
    Never heard that. I know several guys with (larger) Okuma Genos lathes. And, they love them. Hmmmm?

  21. Likes Comatose liked this post
  22. #16
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wyoming
    Posts
    3,398
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    8344
    Likes (Received)
    5490

    Default

    As turning centers go, Haas makes a great machining center...
    We have eight Haas VMCs from old to new and they are all tremendous moneymakers. That said, there's a world of difference between a machining center and a turning center. Gene Haas was a mill guy, not a lathe guy, and the Haas approach to turning centers right from the beginning has been, for a given swing: too small thru the spindle, too slow RPM, and too slow rapid. That's the reason we have eight Hyundai Wia turning centers.

  23. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    411
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    67
    Likes (Received)
    236

    Default

    I'd be curious what they are comparing to. I don't have experience with the SL platform, but perhaps the Genos lathes are still a big upgrade from that. IME the DMG MORI ecoturn/CLX blew it (the Genos 250) out of the water for about the same price.

    If you are a huge fan of the Okuma controller the build quality become of secondary concern; it's not like you can order a Takisawa with the OSP on it.

  24. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Country
    PHILIPPINES
    Posts
    2,670
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    691
    Likes (Received)
    1042

    Default

    Heres my take on it "And I contract for Haas Asia". IF you buy a Haas lathe buy a new one. Haas resale value is just too high to warrant a used one. Sure, you can get a much older model at a decent price but then the 08 and below have almost zero support now. And you can beat 10% off of the build a quote easily. Chip conveyors are a common free bee. Maybe a few control options but thats about it.

    A used lathe to me is a gamble. When things go bad machining in a lathe they go bad fast. Lots of lathes out there that had a hard knock and got half ass fixed just to get rid of it.

    If your'e not looking to buy right now thats a good thing. Haas has some new features coming out this year that are going to be a major step up. This is good as Haas will have extra inventory and cut some smoking deals. In our case, In 2015 when the live tools jumped from 4k RPM to 6k RPM standard we snatched up six ST30Y's at 30% off.

  25. Likes DanASM liked this post
  26. #19
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    724
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    360
    Likes (Received)
    258

    Default

    Be sure to look at other machines than HAAS. I was recently in the market for a new VMC. Looked at Hurco (very popular around here), Haas (pretty popular around here), and Mazak. The Mazak was not much more money and as far as I can tell, a hell of a lot more machine.

    I have a 1989 Mazak QT15 that I bought 4 years ago for not much money ($5k?) that has been pretty much flawless for me. We run stainless parts on it and it just works and works and works. When I bought the new Mazak VMC they commented that I wasn't in their support system. That's because I've literally never had to buy a part for a 30 year old machine. I'd strongly consider a rock solid older used machine before a newer used HAAS.

  27. Likes DanASM liked this post
  28. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Abingdon, VA
    Posts
    3,499
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4737
    Likes (Received)
    3346

    Default

    I have a 1989 Mazak QT15 that I bought 4 years ago for not much money ($5k?) that has been pretty much flawless for me.
    I have two 1988 QT15's (T-2 control), and a 1985 QT20N (T-2 control, 40" z travel, box ways), and these machines are simply fast, accurate, rigid, tough workhorses!

    Once Mazak lathes became white around 2000 (the Nexus series), the design and build of their lathes took a step back, in my opinion.

    The late 80's/90's QT15, QT20, QT28, etc. are fantastic machines, built to last for decades...not to mention they have to easiest and fastest control and programming system (Mazatrol) to ever grace a cnc turning center.

    ToolCat

  29. Likes Bill Clay, SND, Jmaks liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •