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  1. #1
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    Default Health care renewal rates for ACA

    We are a ten person shop of average health 25 - 50 year olds, in business 36 years. I used to pay 100% of health insurance for employees and their families. Several years ago we had to go to to 75% for employee and 50% for dependents to keep the doors open.Very few choices left in my state,but we have an independent health insurance agency shop for us and almost every year costs increase 3 - 10 % and deductibles and co insurance creep up. We have been able to grandfather in our non ACA compliant policy but are unable to change to another non compliant carrier (law prevents it) . Our agent gave us renewal rates and just for my curiosity I asked him to quote an ACA compliant policy with similar coverage. He did, and to go with an ACA compliant policy with similar coverage , my premiums would increase 73%!! Needless to say we will be sticking with a non compliant policy for as long as possible. No way could my company afford it. It's sure not affordable for an ongoing business with tax paying employees. Don't want to start a political argument, but his is one issue that really stands out to me. Anyone have similar or different experiences?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    We are a ten person shop of average health 25 - 50 year olds, in business 36 years. I used to pay 100% of health insurance for employees and their families. Several years ago we had to go to to 75% for employee and 50% for dependents to keep the doors open.Very few choices left in my state,but we have an independent health insurance agency shop for us and almost every year costs increase 3 - 10 % and deductibles and co insurance creep up. We have been able to grandfather in our non ACA compliant policy but are unable to change to another non compliant carrier (law prevents it) . Our agent gave us renewal rates and just for my curiosity I asked him to quote an ACA compliant policy with similar coverage. He did, and to go with an ACA compliant policy with similar coverage , my premiums would increase 73%!! Needless to say we will be sticking with a non compliant policy for as long as possible. No way could my company afford it. It's sure not affordable for an ongoing business with tax paying employees. Don't want to start a political argument, but his is one issue that really stands out to me. Anyone have similar or different experiences?
    ACA seems to have pushed Medicare costs up, too?

    Retired. Long ago. I had to give up Part B several years ago, then ditched the part A card.

    Dare not get sucked into the US system no matter which door you enter by.
    Zero US coverage now.

    All I can do is hope to not get too sick to fly to some other country. We have a private plan underwritten in Hong Kong that has enough coverage for most any place else on-planet, will cover flying me out of the USA.

    If only we hadn't repealed prohibition, organized crime might still be selling bootleg booze, operating crooked tables in gambling dens, and running whorehouses instead of running the HealthScare industry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    ACA seems to have pushed Medicare costs up, too?

    Retired. Long ago. I had to give up Part B several years ago, then ditched the part A card.

    Dare not get sucked into the US system no matter which door you enter by.
    Zero US coverage now.

    All I can do is hope to not get too sick to fly to some other country. We have a private plan underwritten in Hong Kong that has enough coverage for most any place else on-planet, will cover flying me out of the USA.

    If only we hadn't repealed prohibition, organized crime might still be selling bootleg booze, operating crooked tables in gambling dens, and running whorehouses instead of running the HealthScare industry.
    Just wait if the empty suit and the commi chick win, you can bet your non compliant policy will be gone.

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    Why do I not hear a big republican push to eliminate the compulsory part of auto insurance? Is it too deeply embedded to fight it off.
    Bill D

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    Just wait if the empty suit and the commi chick win, you can bet your non compliant policy will be gone.
    And the political fight starts.

    How about intelligent questions like "why do we pay more for drugs then any other country" or "how do the rest of the developed and even not so developed countries have actual healthcare" and dont blame rationing because we defacto ration it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    Why do I not hear a big republican push to eliminate the compulsory part of auto insurance? Is it too deeply embedded to fight it off.
    Bill D
    ACA was a Federal "thing".

    Auto insurance is State. And it isn't compulsory in all States.

    States have plenty of options on Health Care as well.

    It's actually questionable, constitutionally, if the Fed even HAS the standng to be involved at all. That's why it fell apart once no longer classed as a "tax".

    Not "politics". Organized crime. As usual.

    ACA is not being preserved by the administration. They don't have to do much of anything. It's basically invalidated already.

    ACA's damage to competitive rates and alternative providers forced out of the market is being preserved by the monopolistic inch-hoorance rapists whom it was written to benefit. Not by the Federal Government.

    The monopoly made them richer at the very low price of dual Sub-Zero fridges and 12 dollar a pint designer ice cream .....to the Baltimore kaˈmorrə, relocated to California. And allied to Sun Ye On, Hong Kong & China... the Sinaloa Cartel... etc..

    The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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    I'd love to hear about auto insurance from one of our Canadian friends. I'd bet it's a lot cheaper if it doesn't need to have massive medical expense liability rolled in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    I'd love to hear about auto insurance from one of our Canadian friends. I'd bet it's a lot cheaper if it doesn't need to have massive medical expense liability rolled in.
    The range is AT LEAST 5:1 within the USA, based on ZIP code, driver age(s), type of vehicle, type of use, miles of the use, driving/claims record - and the insurer.

    AT LEAST 5:1.

    Healthcare ONCE was similar.

    Folks with healthy family history and lifestyle didn't need the same sort of coverage as the chronically ill or careless, did not buy what they did not need, had very affordable costs.

    ACA wasn't the first to shut-down economical alternatives, only the most draconian and most recent BIG one.

    It was designed to take larger sums from middle class and small business pockets because that was where the money was.

    It was designed to give SOME of that money to the less successful because that's where the votes were.

    It was designed to increase monopoly power of inch-hoorance companies because that's where the bribes come from.

    It did exactly what it was designed to do, all three goals.

    That's only a "shortcoming" if one expected it to have anything to do with improving access to health care instead of making it easier and more profitable to steal far larger sums than ever before.

    Beyond me why people have fallen in love with their own rapist - couldn't keep their health plan, couldn' keep their Doctor - but NOW fight HARD to defend and "keep" the rapists who kilt those off.... all whilst being robbed as well as butt-f**ked.

    Then again, I never did understand why Democrats figure it is always the OTHER GUY who will be taking it in the arse when it's is already up their own backside, stroking hard.. and AFTER making sure the rapo's were prepaid outrageous premiums in advance for the f**king of yah, over, again, and in all time coming.

    Slow learners? Or maybe they just LIKE it?
    Last edited by thermite; 10-12-2020 at 10:27 AM.

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    RICO predicate crimes. The crimes that lead to a RICO charge are called predicate crimes. The RICO statute has a comprehensive list, but a few of the common crimes are: Money laundering. Embezzlement. Bribery. Fraud. Gambling.

    They forgot to mention US Healthcare..

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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    I'd love to hear about auto insurance from one of our Canadian friends. I'd bet it's a lot cheaper if it doesn't need to have massive medical expense liability rolled in.
    It depends a lot on where you live and what your driving history is... Some places, like where I live in Toronto, insurance is completely outrageous. A new male driver here with an inexpensive car will pay almost $500 a month for decent coverage. An experienced driver with a good history of 4-5 years will pay about $250 (numbers from my friends).

    Move outside the city and rates will go down by over 75% in many cases though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    ACA seems to have pushed Medicare costs up, too?

    Retired. Long ago. I had to give up Part B several years ago, then ditched the part A card.

    Dare not get sucked into the US system no matter which door you enter by.
    Zero US coverage now. . . . . . .
    I'm confused by this, Bill.

    Part B is one of the most affordable insurance coverages possible - under $150 a month.

    As I understand it, anyone who has worked something like 8 years (at least 30 months) in the US gets part A coverage for free. Surely you worked 8 years in the US? And saved enough for the $150 a month part B coverage?

    You might be thinking of the supplemental plans? A supplemental plan (say a "Plan F" covering most everything) can get up in the $300 a month range. Part D prescription coverage might be around $50 or so a month. Both are still bargains compared to private insurance.

    Be curious to know the monthly cost of your Hong Kong plan that promises to Medivac you out and cover everything that might ever ail you.

    ---

    To the original poster - North Carolina is one of 12 states that chose not to participate in ACA Medicaid plans. That might affect some of your employees' dependents. And give private insurers one less reason to be competitive.

    As Mebfab notes, we really have the first world's most screwed up system. Been discussed before. We spend near 2x other countries, expect our small businesses to pick up a big part of the tab, and don't have anything to show for all that extra spend in terms of lower infant mortality, fewer obese people blocking the aisles at, say, a Walmart, or greater longevity. And those other countries manage to cover all their citizens - a big plus when there are public health challenges like this pandemic.

    Far too much of our money is being skimmed off the top at every level except maybe your family physician - big pharma, private insurance companies, and big hospital chains. While we're kept distracted by political partisanship, we keep pissing away a higher % of our GDP than most anyone else on our too-expensive health care.

    Health-wise many of us are also our own worst enemies - out of shape, maybe addicted, or young and stupid enough to qualify for Darwin awards.

    One hopes voters will eventually figure out they're being played and unite behind a more cost-effective system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post

    Far too much money being skimmed off the top at every level except maybe your family physician - big pharma, private insurance companies, and big hospital chains.
    You are right to carve out doctors from the folks that are skimming from healthcare and leading to the increased costs. Some doctors make less than nurses do (e.g. the family doctor that you mention).

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    Quote Originally Posted by medsar View Post
    You are right to carve out doctors from the folks that are skimming from healthcare and leading to the increased costs. Some doctors make less than nurses do (e.g. the family doctor that you mention).
    My GP was complaining how the local hospital system bought the practice she worked for. I couldn't understand how a non profit bought a for profit practice (maybe she meant merged?). They had added 50% to her patient load per day. I asked her why she didn't refuse. Or better yet join with her doctor friends and refuse. What are they going to do? Fire all of you? They cant send your job to China, automate (working on that one) or even replace you as there is a national shortage of GPs with significant barrier to entry/long training curve. Seriously, ever hear of a union? Dont like unions, form a cabal.

    It is so bad doctors are killing themselves at an alarming rate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aarongough View Post
    It depends a lot on where you live and what your driving history is... Some places, like where I live in Toronto, insurance is completely outrageous. A new male driver here with an inexpensive car will pay almost $500 a month for decent coverage. An experienced driver with a good history of 4-5 years will pay about $250 (numbers from my friends).

    Move outside the city and rates will go down by over 75% in many cases though.

    Metro DC, crowded, high traffic Loudoun County, I pay a combined $89/month, 2005 Jaguar + 2005 Town & Country. Bit over $1,000 a year covers the homeowners. It was half or less when I was in a rural area even with twice the count of vehicles and drivers..

    In a good year, which has been nearly all of them, I see about $300 to $400 back as annual Seniour bonus and subscriber savings.

    Time was, co-op & mutual health insurance among affinity groups was cheap for the same reason.

    Many of those affinity groups who got together had very low average claims and didn't look to covering EVERY thing, only what we used to call "major medical".

    It ain't the practitioners - Docs, Nurses, lab techs - who are taking all the money. The clerks don't even have to be rip-offs, either. There just happen to be in insanely high COUNT of them, then supervisors, Managers, Executives, Chairmen, and many major buildings to be paid for to HOUSE the lot of them as paper-pushing overhead to look at all the "rules".. and try to f**k them to best advantage of the parasites, required political donations, highest bill to the patients, least money left for the actual Doctors and Nurses.

    Given this ain't a one-sided game, there then has to be a whole triple-set of field-armies of clerks to figure out WHOM is going to pay for an aspirin, then re-submit the bill three different ways over a period of five months to make sure they didn't miss any Mike Foxtrot PAPERWORK opportunity to reap!

    Naturally, this looks silly.

    Some smart bastard might buy his own damned aspirin at Walmart?

    So cheap pharma is forbidden in favour of exotic pharma priced thousands of times higher to make it look as if they actually DID something HARD, and even beneficial.

    There might be another LAWSUIT! Why do things cost more in the USA? We spend more time and money in court over lawsuits than in research labs or surgery over medicine is why.

    Which MEDICAL side of the equation is less and less beneficial where clerks and paperwork are driving the direction of treatment instead of brains and Medical Doctors..

    All Trump's fault of course. Same as hangnail, hangovers, athlete's foot, beer that makes you piss, and wimmin with bad breath of a morning.

    It was as perfect as can be and EVERYBODY loved it and had a great deal at low cost...until DJT came in.

    Fucked it all up in fewer than four years.

    For the F**KING THIEVES, anyway!

    And you wnder why Pelosi & gang are in chronic insane rage?

    DJT has been f**king up the "residuals" on their gold-plated MULTI-GENERATIONAL "family" criminal EMPIRE!

    Last edited by thermite; 10-11-2020 at 11:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mebfab View Post
    And the political fight starts.

    How about intelligent questions like "why do we pay more for drugs then any other country" or "how do the rest of the developed and even not so developed countries have actual healthcare" and dont blame rationing because we defacto ration it.
    Because they drop 6 billion for new hospitals

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by aarongough View Post
    It depends a lot on where you live and what your driving history is... Some places, like where I live in Toronto, insurance is completely outrageous. A new male driver here with an inexpensive car will pay almost $500 a month for decent coverage. An experienced driver with a good history of 4-5 years will pay about $250 (numbers from my friends).

    Move outside the city and rates will go down by over 75% in many cases though.
    Or buy it from the hoovermint.....
    Manitoba Car Insurance — All You Need to Know (2020)

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    I remember years ago before healthcare was an issue in the USA one company cut their rates by a simple method. They decided if patient decided they should see a specialist the company would allow it with no need to fill out request forms and wait for a executive decision.
    They had determined that almost all such requests were ultametly approved. The company was spending more on reviewing all these forms and answering questions about the forms then they saved by disallowing a few of them.
    Bill D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    I remember years ago before healthcare was an issue in the USA one company cut their rates by a simple method. They decided if patient decided they should see a specialist the company would allow it with no need to fill out request forms and wait for a executive decision.
    They had determined that almost all such requests were ultametly approved. The company was spending more on reviewing all these forms and answering questions about the forms then they saved by disallowing a few of them.
    Bill D
    That sounds about right. I think most big business are very very top heavy on indirect labor. Ins agent, inspectors, claims adjusters, etc etc.

    I once worked at a place that had as many people in the office as out in the shop. Surprise surprise, took a downtown and they started laying off the guys in the shop, me included. makes perfect sense eh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    That sounds about right. I think most big business are very very top heavy on indirect labor. Ins agent, inspectors, claims adjusters, etc etc.

    I once worked at a place that had as many people in the office as out in the shop. Surprise surprise, took a downtown and they started laying off the guys in the shop, me included. makes perfect sense eh?
    Opposite side to it. Did in time after time.

    Best defense is a good OFFENSE. Whole economy or a whole industry is in a hurt?

    Angreifen!

    Take a greater share for your biz unit away from the timid!

    Job ONE is to MAKE money.

    Saving it does no good if there AIN'T any being MADE to save from!


    How TF do clerks generate PRODUCT?

    Ga-ron-f**kin'-TEE yah I can teach a mill hand how to write an invoice faster than I can teach a posting clerk how to run a mill! Shouldn't HAVE to teach a Manager or a CEO who has had to shed clerks to do paperwork,, answer his own phone, book his own travel, etc.?

    Need more? Manpower can put clerks on my doorstep in an hour. One day at a time if need be.

    Lathe or mill hands? Not so much.

    Qui audet adipiscitu


    Who dares wins in commerce, same as on the fields of battle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mebfab View Post
    My GP was complaining how the local hospital system bought the practice she worked for. I couldn't understand how a non profit bought a for profit practice (maybe she meant merged?). They had added 50% to her patient load per day. I asked her why she didn't refuse. Or better yet join with her doctor friends and refuse. What are they going to do? Fire all of you? They cant send your job to China, automate (working on that one) or even replace you as there is a national shortage of GPs with significant barrier to entry/long training curve. Seriously, ever hear of a union? Dont like unions, form a cabal.

    It is so bad doctors are killing themselves at an alarming rate.

    When a non-profit buys a for-profit business, that business gets converted to a non-profit. If the new found profit is sent to corporate salaries, the non-profit doesn’t ‘make money’.

    Doctors can’t unionize (technically they can but a union without the ability to strike is toothless). It’s illegal in many states for doctors to go on strike and many states stretch that to unionizing (with some notable exceptions).

    The suicide rate among doctors is very high. It’s easy to see why.


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