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    Default Help with Quality Control Hiring

    Hey everyone.

    I'm new to the forum. I help manage my fathers machine shop as he's starting to hit retirement. It seems that within Southern California there is a lot of college programs that specialize in machining but none of them have a strong quality control aspect. Is there any tips and go to places you guys have when it comes to hiring QC, other than the Indeeds, or craigslist. Also, do you have an issue finding good QC talent when it comes to time to hire new QC employees?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JackatSDS View Post
    Hey everyone.

    I'm new to the forum. I help manage my fathers machine shop as he's starting to hit retirement. It seems that within Southern California there is a lot of college programs that specialize in machining but none of them have a strong quality control aspect. Is there any tips and go to places you guys have when it comes to hiring QC, other than the Indeeds, or craigslist. Also, do you have an issue finding young and good QC talent when it comes to time to hire new QC employees?
    Young would be discrimination. That said I find late 20s to early 40s are the sweet spot for QC. Everyone gets a chance though!

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    With QC, you're better off hiring "older" and good people, as the experience helps in measurement setup methods and accurate process results.

    Unless your "young and good" really means "cheap and good". In which case, "good" luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Young would be discrimination. That said I find late 20s to early 40s are the sweet spot for QC. Everyone gets a chance though!
    Im in my mid 20's. I still consider myself young. Age, however, is a secondary point. What i really want to know is how you guys go about finding quality control people who care about their work, and if there are any difficulties you face when hiring QC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    With QC, you're better off hiring "older" and good people, as the experience helps in measurement setup methods and accurate process results.

    Unless your "young and good" really means "cheap and good". In which case, "good" luck.
    Sorry, not that great with wording that. Age is a secondary secondary point. What I really want to know is how you guys go about finding quality control people who care about their work, and if there are any difficulties you face when hiring QC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JackatSDS View Post
    Im in my mid 20's. I still consider myself young. Age, however, is a secondary point. What i really want to know is how you guys go about finding quality control people who care about their work, and if there are any difficulties you face when hiring QC.
    Hire the old anal retentive machinist that isn't as fast as the "younger guys"

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    Unfortunately qc is a hard one to fill, it can make or break your company. Young and train or old with experience. Either way you need to keep a close eye on them for months before turning them loose.

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    For QC folk that know what they are doing the best are the experienced and respected machinists.

    QC shouldn't be about finding faults. The best QC folk help prevent faults and when the inevitable happens figure out how to prevent it happening again.

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    Too many confuse QC with inspection. How do you "control" quality by looking for defect parts?

    An American (Deming) helped the Japanese handle design and manufacturing that ended with Japanese products having almost no defects. The "secret" is giving thought to the design and how to make it with as little chance for error as possible.

    I've seen in some companies where an inspector finds a defect made by a lazy or incompetent machinist and somehow it ends up as the inspectors fault. A machinist that can't produce good quality without the help of a nanny (aka inspector) should either be trained more or find another job.

    This should not be confused with inspection of critical parts where "the man at the machine" doesn't have the possibility of carrying out the necessary inspection required or where a very critical part should be "double checked".

    I read long ago that 80% of all mistakes made in production were in fact due to bad specifications and design by someone in the design department. Sadly discussing with the guy that designed and drew is often like talking to a brick wall.

    If the OP is a supplier more than an own product manufacturer then hire skilled machinists. If an own product manufacturer then make sure those in the design department knows what production can and can't do and that they communicate.

    This can be drawn but try making

    impossible.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    For QC folk that know what they are doing the best are the experienced and respected machinists.

    QC shouldn't be about finding faults. The best QC folk help prevent faults and when the inevitable happens figure out how to prevent it happening again.
    Man oh Man oh Man!!

    Couldn't agree more, but unfortunately that is my only experience. Seems like if QC/QA doesn't find something wrong they aren't doing their job, hence they HAVE to find something....

    I know I have shared this, but going to again!

    Last qc I worked with rejected parts where a pin was pressed in was "out of tolerance" by literaly .0001-.0003" on the depth. It was a +/-.005" dim btw, of which we all knew could be +/-.02" (we made the whole ass'y long story short). This freekin di*khead got a whole bunch of people involved, of which everyone kind of with raised eyebrows was like "what..?"


    Anywho, good luck. I hate QC people in general. Some people just have a mindset of inspect to REJECT...

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    We have a constant problem filling Q.A. positions.

    It is the primary bottleneck in the entire building.

    We recently hired a mechanical engineer from Missouri S&T and she is great. Then we hired her husband (also a Mechanical engineer) and placed him in charge of Q.A. and he is doing a bang-up job inspecting incoming, in process, and outgoing product.

    He's not cheep, but well worth the investment.

    Just another thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderjet View Post
    We have a constant problem filling Q.A. positions.

    It is the primary bottleneck in the entire building.

    We recently hired a mechanical engineer from Missouri S&T and she is great. Then we hired her husband (also a Mechanical engineer) and placed him in charge of Q.A. and he is doing a bang-up job inspecting incoming, in process, and outgoing product.

    He's not cheep, but well worth the investment.

    Just another thought.
    "Then we hired her husband (also a Mechanical engineer) and placed him in charge of Q.A. and he is doing a bang-up job inspecting incoming, in process, and outgoing product."

    I'm not sure what you mean by doing a "bang-up" job. Have things improved since he started or is he just good at finding faults? If I were you I'd find out why that work is necessary. You don't have reliable suppliers, good machinists and finished products not up to spec?

    QC isn't the same as QA although the two often get confused.

    The companies and organisations that have QA are the same ones that insist on suppliers being ISO certified but still keep on auditing. Checking what has been checked.

    Most QA engineers I've know tend to start off by saying "What if ….." After that it's anybodys guess. I believe QA was started by the military.

    True story. I once visited a company that told me (without smiling) that their best product was hand grenade casings. They'd never had a single complaint.

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    I'm not sure what you mean by doing a "bang-up" job. Have things improved since he started or is he just good at finding faults?
    What I mean is that he's GOOD at his JOB.

    And YES things have improved at all levels of his duties.


    If I were you I'd find out why that work is necessary. You don't have reliable suppliers, good machinists and finished products not up to spec?
    You're not me.
    We are required to inspect incoming stuff because of ISO.

    And I"M the machinist/diemaker/press operator/mechanical inspector/ fixture guy that he's checking up on.

    Everything's "up to spec" Gordon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderjet View Post
    What I mean is that he's GOOD at his JOB.

    And YES things have improved at all levels of his duties.




    You're not me.
    We are required to inspect incoming stuff because of ISO.

    And I"M the machinist/diemaker/press operator/mechanical inspector/ fixture guy that he's checking up on.

    Everything's "up to spec" Gordon.
    I asked questions you should have been asking yourself. He might very well be good but in what way is he "good"? Is he finding faults or preventing them?

    BTW where in ISO does it state that you are required to inspect incoming stuff? I've always regarded "Corrective Acton" as the most important part of ISO.

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    I asked questions you should have been asking yourself. He might very well be good but in what way is he "good"? Is he finding faults or preventing them?
    Both.

    BTW where in ISO does it state that you are required to inspect incoming stuff? I've always regarded "Corrective Acton" as the most important part of ISO.
    His corrective action duties are part of why he's good at his job.

    And it is not a requirement but an insurance policy for us. After we assemble our products, they are fused in glass furnaces. We need to know if the glass is the right recipe before we literally burn thru all of our product.

    Just one example.

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    At 23 years old I was 6 years experience in quality. ASQ -CMI, CQT and was CQE by 25. I trained by boss. I was told I wasn't allowed to have the position because I was too young. I left that company and they felt it...asked me four years later to come back which I declined.

    With that said, I feel quality positions do not pay appropriately. At the time, me and three other fellas went through the same vocational school. I went through quality and they went into machining at the same exact shop. They made $3/hr more than me in 4 years. Glad I left that mess and got the hell away from quality.
    Having held QI, QT, QE and QM positions at large companies, I never made as good of money in any of my quality positions as I do in operations....

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy1966 View Post
    ... I went through quality and they went into machining at the same exact shop. They made $3/hr more than me in 4 years.
    Good people tend not to stay in the quality, inspection or that whole side of the business for just this reason.
    Add that everyone hates you and either thinks you a prick from the production side or at fault and a added cost from the management side.
    Despite the efforts of Demming and others it is not a highly redeemed job and pays less than the operations position that says "Just ship it".
    The career exception being if a person in this goes to work for a gauge or cmm builder.

    I have to ask the OP, will this job pay more than the highest paid machinist on the floor?
    Bob

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    Quality control is such an important part of manufacturing.
    It is important job to make sure every product that goes out the door is in great condition.

    I would suggest hiring someone who has the experience needed to take on the position.
    However, if they are young that shouldn't matter as long as they are willing to do the job right.
    Take me for example since I'm in my early 20s. Is this a position that you can train someone in?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Good people tend not to stay in the quality, inspection or that whole side of the business for just this reason.
    Add that everyone hates you and either thinks you a prick from the production side or at fault and a added cost from the management side.
    Despite the efforts of Demming and others it is not a highly redeemed job and pays less than the operations position that says "Just ship it".
    The career exception being if a person in this goes to work for a gauge or cmm builder.

    I have to ask the OP, will this job pay more than the highest paid machinist on the floor?
    Bob
    Why would it?

    Ass-u-ming a 'real' machinist and not button pusher. I have my personal feelings about QC in general, but what makes their skillset more valuable than the guy making the parts?

    I know my experiences have all been relatively negative so there is that.

    1) Was chasing tolerances on a part some years back and wondering why the hell we are moving our offset plus, than minus, then back to plus... the "quality" guy was clamping the part with one clamp on cmm table, pushing (really pushing!) a gage pin up to establish datum, then taking gage pin back out by twisting the pin. Never occured to him that he might me moving the part around and that's why each one was getting different results.

    2) Guy rejecting plus or minus .005" stuff by using a tenth indicator and trying to scrap every one if it was 1 tenth out either way. (Of which I can see the argument, but common sense would tell you that was a bit overkill IMO, especially considering this was a digital indicator and you could see it vary a tenth or two every time you hit the zero/origin button)

    3) One guy was checking a hole in stamped part and didn't get he was probing the break out section, not the peirced section and saying it was .005" over or something when you could clearly gage pin it and see it was not .005" oversize. Same guy used to slam the probe around single hits and report whatever numbers popped up, without any consideration if it could possibly be right. Oh, and this same place used to 'calibrate' our tape measures, but mics, indicators, nah those don't need it! LMAO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Why would it?
    Because if you had a good QC person you would not have had 1,2, and 3 and the lost time involved.
    Yet this is add on so why pay. Everyone makes good parts, why this added layer.
    Try to put yourself in that guys shoes and the production people hate me.
    The QC guy should work with production and try to give slack. The production and engineering people should try to work with QC and be well inside any question of a tolerance.
    There should be no riding any edge. This should not be a problem unless something has gone to shit.
    If you are making .005 parts and being rejected by tenths someting is very, very wrong with the process.

    It's all a team with one goal.
    I get that you have had bad experiences but internal disrespect for the other is never helpful.
    That is what mangers are employed for.
    Bob

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