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  1. #41
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    Doesn't matter how productive one machine is per hour when the Chinese will just add more workers and cheap machines. Labor is so cheap and plentiful.not even taking into account government payouts for being a great party member. Plus I have never seen a$25000 or $1000000 machine set it self up. So your numbers only work for long production runs.

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    Default Hourly rate for cell

    Did I miss a something here?

    I always thought CarbideBob owned/operated a fairly large carbide tool manufacturing plant?

    Maybe he still does....?Hourly rate for  cell

    And from my experience, there’s not much use in trying to compete with China. If you go real low, they go lower....
    Last edited by cnctoolcat; 04-13-2019 at 09:48 AM.

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    I used to work with a swiss shop in Indiana that shipped several million parts/year to a company in China because he could make their parts (admittedly fairly precise parts, but no secondary ops other than a tumble) cheaper than they could source them in China.

    As to the current problem, I'd say the operator has a rate and each machine has a rate for internal costs. An operator running 2 machines doesn't cost the same amount as two operators running one machine each so it doesn't make sense to ignore the operator. Each machine's rate needs to be scaled on what portion of the time it runs. If 3 of the machines run every day and one only runs every other day then it effectively has double the cost.

    Billing is a matter of what the market will pay you.

    In an easy environment you can get away without really knowing what each of these things cost and then saying "each machine is $60/hr". Sure an average drill press doesn't cost the same amount to run an average mill, but that might be a close enough approximation if the work on average pays well. Get to the point where the margins are thinner and you need to have a better handle on things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    Did I miss a something here?

    I always thought CarbideBob owned/operated a fairly large carbide tool manufacturing plant?

    Maybe he still is...?Hourly rate for  cell
    He does...and before Flint turned in to a manufacturing wasteland, I imagine he was doing quite well with custom tool orders.

    But now that Flint is one big toxic dump, and all of the large manufacturing businesses that were there have vanished below the border (GM), well, the toolmakers took a bit of a hit.

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    Am I the ONLY one that looks at this quite differently? I have had bigger shops ask us what our shop rate was, looking to sub work over. I simply tell them its by the part! At the end of it all, all that matters is the rolled up price to the customer. I NEVER detail programming, setup, etc.

    There is a huge difference between 2hrs run time on Aluminum, vs 2hrs run time in Inconel or Ti. Risk, qty, repeat orders, material cost, other processes, etc. It ALL has to be considered.


    To just give Bob my opinion, low qty and high PN count, I would question the need for a multi machine cell at all. There are other ways to optimize. I think pallets are far cheaper than machines.

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  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by huleo View Post
    Am I the ONLY one that looks at this quite differently? I have had bigger shops ask us what our shop rate was, looking to sub work over. I simply tell them its by the part! At the end of it all, all that matters is the rolled up price to the customer. I NEVER detail programming, setup, etc.

    There is a huge difference between 2hrs run time on Aluminum, vs 2hrs run time in Inconel or Ti. Risk, qty, repeat orders, material cost, other processes, etc. It ALL has to be considered.


    To just give Bob my opinion, low qty and high PN count, I would question the need for a multi machine cell at all. There are other ways to optimize. I think pallets are far cheaper than machines.
    Fully agree (I said it in post#29)
    When the OEMs used to ask me the hrly rate, I used to give a figure real low. Lower than anyone around.
    So we'd get the work and then charge what we felt was a happy price (for us).
    It did help knowing (through some back doors at the company) what prices they were paying, but the shoppers (buyers) used to love it because we had a real cheap hourly rate


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