How do you guys handle the “could you do me a favor” work? - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    I never subsidize another man's hobby or vocation.
    And I have no difficulty saying so.

    I make exception for those without the means to do for themselves.
    I don't. Well, exceptions at my discretion...

    Case in point - work colleague with a bad cycle habit who liked going off on long overseas cycle touring holidays. Wanted me to make a bunch of stuff he could buy but was quite expensive. I said no, then he wanted to use my machinery because I couldn't possibly be using 3 lathes & 4 mills at the same time. Now this isn't correct but it's also not the point - I don't let other people use *my* machinery (with a couple exceptions).

    Third try was the guilt trip. "You're so lucky to have all that equipment. There are a lot of us who aren't so fortunate. You could share a bit you know".

    My response? You're so lucky to afford all those overseas holidays. I spend my money on tooling. Perhaps if you did the same then you'd be able to do stuff for yourself.

    I'll help someone out - bunch of people, mainly yachties who are doing long distance cruises who I've made or fixed stuff for without charge. I *know* they can't do it for themselves and generally they're the self-reliant types who are ready & willing to help others. Those jobs I regard as paying it forward. One day I might be reliant on the kindness of a stranger and I want my karma balance to be well positive. One of them I made a bunch of stuff for is giving me a couple of days next week to work on my boat.

    But too many people are either lazy or exploiters. It poisons the well.

    PDW

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  3. #42
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    At my old job I was in a university setting and that is the worst place to be for free work. I got it from everyone, the staff and teachers, the general public, students, inventors etc. Everyone came in expecting something high end for free and soon. My job did include a very small amount of that, but not the amount that I was asked for sure. Then add in the political backlash I'd get if I didn't do things for certain people.

    Anyway, when I started my shop, I decided to keep the door locked and no signage or phone number and I mostly only do work for paying customers.

    I have a couple friends that I will drop everything if they call, because if they call me, they are in real need. Most others I let it go to voicemail.

    I do make stuff for church, signage and things that I am good at and can save a bunch of money that can be used in other areas.

    I was trained and worked as a mechanic for awhile and I have plenty of vehicles and I ended up getting taken advantage of by others working on their vehicles. I allowed myself to get talked into it because I thought I was doing good and doing things that not many others would do. Well, I realized all too late that nobody else did it because people didn't want to pay for it, let alone what it was worth. I finally had to tell everyone that I couldn't and wouldn't work on anyone else's cars. Once I made the decision, it hasn't been hard to hold to it. I even told the wife to remind me if I needed it....

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  5. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Generous to a fault Cal. But you might want to think that one over, as it seems about as soundly assured to be a bottomless pit as anything at all in the history of mankind ever was, yah?

    Oh.. I did forget, didn't I?

    For a wanabee Marxist it is still good, yah?

    It is always meant to be done off the back of the resources of OTHERS in any case.
    Bill

    I don't have many "friends" that would pressure me. And I certainly don't advertise. So the bottomless pit is not likely to beat a path to my doorway.

    But on a first name basis, ( I live in a town of less than 2500 souls), One does what one can, and helping is not without it's rewards.

  6. #44
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    I bought a new tire machine and balancer this fall, I now have more friends than you can imagine.
    No, really I have a lot of spare time and enjoy helping my friends, till I get taken advantage of.
    I had a guy tell me the reason I have more than I need is that I help others.

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  8. #45
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    Hmmmm..

    When I get back from my three week holiday in Aruba, I'm going to "reach out" to you for the winter tires that need mounted and balanced. FRIEND...

    ;-)

  9. #46
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    I will get right on it!!

    My friend asked if we had anywhere to go for Thanksgiving, I said yes 4 offers, after all I have a tire machine.

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  11. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by true temper View Post
    I bought a new tire machine and balancer this fall, I now have more friends than you can imagine.
    No, really I have a lot of spare time and enjoy helping my friends, till I get taken advantage of.
    I had a guy tell me the reason I have more than I need is that I help others.


    Will it handle 305/70/22.5 tires by any chance??????

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    Am also still learning to say no at age close to 57. My mother, a manipulator of the first class. What I’ve found out only lately is that I can say no to her. Boy, your birthday, don’t you want to come by? This year I agreed, papa is 86, mum is 81, they shouldn’t drive around by car any longer, so I gave in.

    On an internet forum I had written that I give a certain movie camera a wide berth (for repair and in general). Suddenly someone comes up with such a thing, explains he can’t get the finder image sharp. I start to share my ideas about possible causes, they’re not accepted. Few days later the OP sends me a message babbling something of postal fees replaced and sending. I ask him what he’s up to, whether he wants a repair. Answer is he gives it to me asking for a shipping address. I reply you really want to foist it on me, alright then, accompanied by the address. Camera is now underway to me for free. I’d never have expected anything like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yardbird View Post
    It depends on who it is? I still do favors for people on an occasional basis. Guys that don't ask very often or need something you can't buy.

    Brent
    To my way of thinking a "favour" is a 2 way street. If the person asking or expecting can't return the "favour" then it isn't a favour. Depending on who wants what and can't reciprocate then it's either a "Sorry, don't have time" or "F'ck off".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    To my way of thinking a "favour" is a 2 way street. If the person asking or expecting can't return the "favour" then it isn't a favour. Depending on who wants what and can't reciprocate then it's either a "Sorry, don't have time" or "F'ck off".
    Yeah, i agree with that, that said, im more than open to something different in return, Home grown vegetables, Artichokes, Asparagus, sunflower head for our gerbils etc, something i would not normally have - get and add some interest - variety to life is always a great swap for freeing a frozen bolt - sharpening stuff etc. Im not always interested in equal value, just kinda want something offered in return - keeping it a 2 way street as it were. More than a few times i have done stuff on the agreement i get the old ones, got some truly great taps this way that just needed a limescale removal and new ceramic cartridges, awsome designer kettle, through swapping in the new ones. Installation of new equipment when i get to scrap out the old etc as a source of components.

    Hopefully have a deal lined up next year with a Tortoise breeder in return for some products i make etc. Had one as a kid, will be great to have another and there not the easiest things to get over here :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    Yeah, i agree with that, that said, im more than open to something different in return, Home grown vegetables, Artichokes, Asparagus, sunflower head for our gerbils etc, something i would not normally have - get and add some interest - variety to life is always a great swap for freeing a frozen bolt - sharpening stuff etc. Im not always interested in equal value, just kinda want something offered in return - keeping it a 2 way street as it were. More than a few times i have done stuff on the agreement i get the old ones, got some truly great taps this way that just needed a limescale removal and new ceramic cartridges, awsome designer kettle, through swapping in the new ones. Installation of new equipment when i get to scrap out the old etc as a source of components.

    Hopefully have a deal lined up next year with a Tortoise breeder in return for some products i make etc. Had one as a kid, will be great to have another and there not the easiest things to get over here :-)
    As I wrote "It's a 2 way street" so it doesn't matter with what as long as it is possible to return the favour.

    3 years ago a friend asked if I wanted an aquarium. I said "yes" and not only given an aquarium but a pile of extra aquarium equipment. I've tried to repay that several times but the bastard wouldn't take anything.

    Turned out it wasn't exactly a "freebie". Fish and plants cost LOL

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  19. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    As I wrote "It's a 2 way street" so it doesn't matter with what as long as it is possible to return the favour.

    3 years ago a friend asked if I wanted an aquarium. I said "yes" and not only given an aquarium but a pile of extra aquarium equipment. I've tried to repay that several times but the bastard wouldn't take anything.

    Turned out it wasn't exactly a "freebie". Fish and plants cost LOL
    Imo you never do a favor and expect something in return. A favor is not an investment, it's to help someone in need.

    It's like charity. Donations should always be made anonymously, otherwise you are doing it for the wrong reason and looking for a pat on the back. That's not true charity.

    If we do something to help others and expect something in return, then we are truly only looking to help ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by true temper View Post
    I bought a new tire machine and balancer this fall, I now have more friends than you can imagine.
    No, really I have a lot of spare time and enjoy helping my friends, till I get taken advantage of.
    I had a guy tell me the reason I have more than I need is that I help others.
    Well I own same, but I don't go around on the "WORLD WIDE WEB" telling people....what do you expect ?....

    Might as well print up some cards, and siphon off the fall rush
    work that the tire stores get so backed up with (Hint, run the tire machine
    on second shift & the weekends)

    Seriously, many people around me have their own in a barn, and know how to use them.

    Try pointing to the tire machine, and the jack, and say "have at it"
    and you'll see them slink away quietly.
    If they do accept, show them how to do it safely, and they might just
    work out well, to help you, when you need something (like putting
    your tires on, when your too busy)

  21. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alloy Mcgraw View Post
    Imo you never do a favor and expect something in return. A favor is not an investment, it's to help someone in need.

    It's like charity. Donations should always be made anonymously, otherwise you are doing it for the wrong reason and looking for a pat on the back. That's not true charity.

    If we do something to help others and expect something in return, then we are truly only looking to help ourselves.
    Yeah, wait for that pie in the sky.

    Anyone who thinks they can perform perpetual favors and 'get nothing in return' is fooling themselves. You will get bitter and resentful eventually. That is the truth.

    And I can and do, do favors for people and get paid to boot. You can get paid to defray the overhead, still do a favor, still not advance your income. I take on some 'shit jobs' that I'd be glad to pay someone else to do, too. And if I could get it for free, well, so much the better (for freeloaders). I don't think that way, and so I never ask for a favor if I am not in a position to reciprocate. It is easier and fairer to just settle the transaction NOW, with the medium of exchange.

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  23. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuFlungDung View Post
    Yeah, wait for that pie in the sky.

    Anyone who thinks they can perform perpetual favors and 'get nothing in return' is fooling themselves. You will get bitter and resentful eventually. That is the truth.

    And I can and do, do favors for people and get paid to boot. You can get paid to defray the overhead, still do a favor, still not advance your income. I take on some 'shit jobs' that I'd be glad to pay someone else to do, too. And if I could get it for free, well, so much the better (for freeloaders). I don't think that way, and so I never ask for a favor if I am not in a position to reciprocate. It is easier and fairer to just settle the transaction NOW, with the medium of exchange.
    Think you missed my point.

    When you do a "favor" for something in return, it's not a favor anymore. You would be receiving payment of some kind for a service you provided.

    I'm a man who doesn't like owing, or being owed. My business doesn't do favors, it's here to make money.

    So when someone comes to me with a "job", there is a cost associated with that....But i don't call it a favor if i'm paid to do it.

    It's called providing a service for a fee. Or what's commonly referred to as a job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alloy Mcgraw View Post
    Think you missed my point.

    When you do a "favor" for something in return, it's not a favor anymore. You would be receiving payment of some kind for a service you provided.

    I'm a man who doesn't like owing, or being owed. My business doesn't do favors, it's here to make money.

    So when someone comes to me with a "job", there is a cost associated with that....But i don't call it a favor if i'm paid to do it.

    It's called providing a service for a fee. Or what's commonly referred to as a job.
    Is it still a job if the church pastor asks you to build a bunch of shelves and you only charge for the materials you don't have on hand and none of your time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenton View Post
    Is it still a job if the church pastor asks you to build a bunch of shelves and you only charge for the materials you don't have on hand and none of your time?
    Charity is charity. Might even be one provides the materials, too. And volunteered, need not have been asked.

    The thread, my view, is not about the choice of volunteer work nor charity.

    It is about the parasitical or "entitlement" nature of those who figure THEIR skillsets should always be paid-for at full-rate, but that anyone who is a "tool person" should be a free meal because they "already have all that stuff and know how to do...".

    Why is it they think our INVESTMENT in tools and the skill to use them means we get to live to be nine-hundred years old and have more "free time", hence it must be worth less than their time is?

    I have a suspicion on the psychology of it all.

    Feudal system hang-over.

    The clean-hands crowd see themselves as minor nobility.

    We who work with hands as WELL AS our minds, must be the G-Damned serfs, the course of our low-value lives theirs to command with disdain and indifference.

    Sod that. Even just on the general principle of it. Like a pup as needs housebroken. Not a good idea to keep putting that training off 'til he dies an old dog, convinced he was right all along, and you were his God-appointed servant at taking care of the shit.

    Charity is charity. Barter is barter. Good will - shared and reciprocated at least in principal amongst family, neighbours and community is there or it ain't, not a lot of "score keeping" required.

    Parasites are another critter. Learn to recognize which is which and make your choices. ELSE just suffer.

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  27. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenton View Post
    Is it still a job if the church pastor asks you to build a bunch of shelves and you only charge for the materials you don't have on hand and none of your time?
    No, it's a favor. You didn't profit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post

    Ok- complaining over.
    But what tactics you guys use to fend off this nonsense without coming off like a dick?
    I tell them I only do industrial work. no personnel projects or farmer work. I am very busy. I usually make $100/hr + and do not have any extra time..... If my neighbor needs something, I will help because I like my neighbors. very rare though...

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    Default How do you guys handle the “could you do me a favor” work?

    We Americans can be a bunch of arrogant cheapskates, that's for sure.

    If I had a dollar for every little "job" that someone I knew has asked me to do over the years. I would be rich. Funny how the expectation is that since the job is simple, it should only take a few minutes and of course be free.

    I learned early on to say NO, many different ways to do that.

    It never fails when you do the little job for free, the expectation of a return favor seems to always be forgotten by the beggar party.

    Anymore, I like to use a simply analogy when declining the offer of "favor/free work":
    Just because your neighbor has all the nice equipment and mows grass for a living, are you going to ask him to mow your yard for free??

    OF COURSE NOT!

    Then don't ask me to machine your shit for free either!! (and this comes with a joking tone and laugh, to preserve the friendship...).


    ToolCat


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