how part size affects shop rate
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    167
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    27
    Likes (Received)
    53

    Default how part size affects shop rate

    For a like-for-like amount of machine work, how would a large 48” square plate stack up with a 20” square plate? Not trying to over think this, so assume it’s not too exotic, or tolerances tighter than .005, but has cnc features. Just wondering if I should assume the typical cost of something bigger than can be done on a 40x20 machine will be more expensive by rough factor, or will be quoted using a higher shop rate based on fewer shops with larger machines etc.
    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Beaverdam, Virginia
    Posts
    7,889
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    841
    Likes (Received)
    3763

    Default

    Common sense obviously tells me the fewer people can do the job the more you can charge for it. Driving the value of the large work up even more is transportation costs. It isn't like it goes in a large flat rate box and shipping it 5 miles costs the same as 2500 miles. I have more than admitted once to having a varied shop rate depending on what is needed to machine a part.

  3. Likes Philabuster liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    3,035
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    603
    Likes (Received)
    2125

    Default

    I quote based on how much work it's going to take me to do the job, with the equipment I own, and include the cost of the consumables.

    IF someone else quotes it lower because they have more suitable machines, well that's how it goes.

  5. Likes Hodge, Bobw, Booze Daily, Philabuster, lumley32 liked this post
  6. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Beaverdam, Virginia
    Posts
    7,889
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    841
    Likes (Received)
    3763

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    IF someone else quotes it lower because they have more suitable machines, well that's how it goes.
    It boggles the mind how some guys start ripping on people smoking their prices without even thinking someone might have machinery and skills better suited to the work. It wasn't here as this crowd as a whole seems more knowledgeable than places like the Zone. Someone posted the wining bid and dudes were up in arms complaining about the cheapest being a 40 year old virgin and his lathe living in his mother's basement. They then even made bigger fools of themselves posting their estimated cycle times and how to make the parts. I guess most of them have never seen nor heard of a sliding head stock Swiss. They had all this baloney of multiple ops and 3-4 minute cycle times. I think for me it was 45 seconds dropped complete off bar stock and then a little tumbling.

  7. Likes TDegenhart, Ox, Philabuster, digger doug liked this post
  8. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    West Unity, Ohio
    Posts
    25,672
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5980
    Likes (Received)
    8267

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    It boggles the mind how some guys start ripping on people smoking their prices without even thinking someone might have machinery and skills better suited to the work. It wasn't here as this crowd as a whole seems more knowledgeable than places like the Zone. Someone posted the wining bid and dudes were up in arms complaining about the cheapest being a 40 year old virgin and his lathe living in his mother's basement. They then even made bigger fools of themselves posting their estimated cycle times and how to make the parts. I guess most of them have never seen nor heard of a sliding head stock Swiss. They had all this baloney of multiple ops and 3-4 minute cycle times. I think for me it was 45 seconds dropped complete off bar stock and then a little tumbling.

    Well, I've sure seen much of that here as well, but maybe not so much lately, but you are right about someone that not only doesn't have anything other than traditional type and commodity sized equipment thinking that anything that they aren't competitive on must be drain circlers.


    However - on the original post - I doo charge more for my bigger equipment per hour. The equipment costs more, takes up 2 or 3 times more real estate, and costs more to maintain. For the same reasons, I expect to make a bit more for my multi-turret lathes that can process the same part in 3/4 of the time of a single spindle machine.

    On the other hand - those bigger or better equipped machines that cost more, will likely get the part done quicker than multiple repositions on a lesser machine, so you charging more per hour for a bigger part that will also take you longer to process may not land you the part. You trying to charge more per hour AND take longer due to not being proficient with that sized part - is kind'a like double dipping. If you can git away with it - good for you, but don't expect it.


    -------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

  9. Likes AndyF liked this post
  10. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arizona
    Posts
    61
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    47

    Default

    In simple terms the total net price will probably be proportional to the size and complexity.
    A small machine shop with no overhead crane, limited travel machines etc. Will probably charge less per hour but take longer to produce.
    A shop with overhead crane, single set up machine capacity etc is going to do the job quicker but charge more per hour.
    A Bridgeport just sits on a concrete floor nothing special a boring mill may have a 200k dollar foundation and 25k electrical hook up with all the OSHA safety stuff etc.
    If the job warrants the boring mill it's going to cost a lot more per hour but if you need a 3" hole in 2" plate you just drilled it, in a Bridgeport it's going to take you a long time.

  11. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Missoula Mt
    Posts
    110
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    37

    Default

    A 40x40 plate takes a bigger machine, more floor space, more investment in tooling, less room for mistakes, more to lose if you mouse it...Of course it will cost a lot more 4x at least, shop has to pay for the heat, lights, crane ect, and why do it cheap your the only one in town that can do it...Phil

  12. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS
    Posts
    3,707
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1678

    Default

    I don't think big or small has much to do with it. You take the monthly overhead, add how much profit you think you can make, divide by the hours you work and that's the shop rate. Pretty simple.

  13. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    poulsbo, wa, usa
    Posts
    902
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    67
    Likes (Received)
    388

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I don't think big or small has much to do with it. You take the monthly overhead, add how much profit you think you can make, divide by the hours you work and that's the shop rate. Pretty simple.
    this guy is spot on ,,, Great job of KISSING it out ..

    A lot of shops don`t stop and think about what there out going costs are and understand what there income "HAS" to be ..

  14. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    167
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    27
    Likes (Received)
    53

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I don't think big or small has much to do with it. You take the monthly overhead, add how much profit you think you can make, divide by the hours you work and that's the shop rate. Pretty simple.
    In theory it should be that simple but in practice i don’t think so. That “profit” number fluctuates with how much work shops have, and what they think the customer/part will bear. Just curious if a part being visually big in itself qued up bigger dollar signs (generally speaking).

  15. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Temecula, Ca
    Posts
    3,052
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1335
    Likes (Received)
    3965

    Default

    two ways I look at it. A real big part is probably going to have long cycle times. So the machine it's on can sit there and run all by itself for days on end. So the shop rate could be reduced on something like that. On the other hand, when you've got a $3K-$4k piece of material and no extras, the risk factor goes way up. So to answer your question, yes and no.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •