How To start finding work for a new machine shop?

ivicblack · Jul 16, 2015

Howdy folks,
Myself and 2 other machinists are trying to startup our own small machine shop. We are currently still working on our business plan. My question is how do you go about finding work from the beginning? Our long term goal is to make our own product but for the first 3 years or so we will be a job shop. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

upnorth5axis · Jul 16, 2015

you first need to start the shop. no one will talk with untill you have one, then start knocking on doors

Bobw · Jul 16, 2015

ivicblack said:
We are currently still working on our business plan.

Make stuff, then sell the stuff.... That was hard... The STUFF part... that's the hard part.

My question is how do you go about finding work from the beginning?

You have to have a shop first. Then as upnorth5axis said, start knocking on doors. At least one of you guys has
to have some equipment in a garage.. Even if you take shifts cranking handles on a 9x20, its money coming in, and
you can work up from there.

Our long term goal is to make our own product but for the first 3 years or so we will be a job shop. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Supporting 3 people right out of the gate is going to be very difficult. If its an after hours thing, where you all still have jobs,
it will be a lot easier...

If you want to eventually make your own products, start making them now, why wait 3 years??? Unless you want to make kit cars
or something... In which case come up with something NOW, get some money flowing...

Gordon B. Clarke · Jul 16, 2015

ivicblack said:
Howdy folks,
Myself and 2 other machinists are trying to startup our own small machine shop. We are currently still working on our business plan. My question is how do you go about finding work from the beginning? Our long term goal is to make our own product but for the first 3 years or so we will be a job shop. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

If it was easy everybody would do it.

Your long term goal is to make your own product???? Have you as yet any idea as to what this product might be? If not you'll be waiting for the same miracle as many others.

Will you have any competition from shops around your area and if yes, why should you be preferred?

My advice? Don't start until you are very sure of what you want to do and how to do it. I'm thinking if anyone in here could give THE ANSWERS they'd be very much in demand as consultants.

Larry Dickman · Jul 16, 2015

Are you looking to start a business with 2 pals, all as owners? Step 1 is get find a business lawyer and have it established from the get go, who owns what, who's responsible for what, etc. You also need a plan for how to divide things up if it all goes sour. Otherwise, go ahead and change your name to Litigant right now.

ivicblack · Jul 16, 2015

Thank you all for this great advice and helping me get a better understanding on how I should go about this business venture.

Mebfab · Jul 16, 2015

Or try the search function. Comes up every other week.

Bobw · Jul 16, 2015

Larry Dickman said:
Are you looking to start a business with 2 pals, all as owners? Step 1 is get find a business lawyer and have it established from the get go, who owns what, who's responsible for what, etc. You also need a plan for how to divide things up if it all goes sour. Otherwise, go ahead and change your name to Litigant right now.

Going through this shit right now. Somebody that I thought was a good friend since I was barely 18... Stuffing it up my ass. Been stuffing it up
my ass further and further for years.... It finally had to stop.

Digging into paperwork... Looking at stuff that I never thought I had to look at. Filthy fucking scumbag thief.

I'm at 111 days with absolutely no pay, none, zip, zero, nada. Averaging 100+ hours a week again. I did 115 working hours in
6 days about a month ago. pulled a straight 31 hours a bit ago. Over 6k out of my pocket paying company bills. Tucking
tail and having customers that hand write checks, write checks to suppliers because the bills were months overdue.

Corporate paperwork taken,so opening a secure bank account has been a bitch, and he took the bottom 90 checks out of the
stack. I've been stock piling customer checks, but apparently customers have been paying me directly, so (hopefully not) they are
going to get dragged into this cluster fuck of lies and thievery. If that wasn't clear, I've stayed straight up and above board.
Not one stinky nickel has gone into my pocket.

"you might be able to get a small check at the end of the month, and oh, here's an overdue bill" Scumbag!!!

My better half went on vacation without me.... AGAIN because I had to work, and that cocksucker just took a 5 week vacation after wiping
out the bank account.

But he didn't do it, the checks were written to another company that for some reason has the initials of this company. And
has absolutely no association what so ever.
What I (and him on the rare occasion he came to work)say EVERYTIME I've answered the phone for the past 8 years.
What our customers refer to us as, what is written on material tubes and
in notes on PO's. And what was actually on the printed checks back quite a few years ago I found out today... The initials of
our work order system... Lying sack of shit.

Lawyers aren't cheap. That new truck you wanted, the lawyer can afford it. Though in my case, its the least amount of money I've been
fucked out of lately, so its a bargain.

They may be friends, but they also might be scumbag filthy fucking thief business partners.

If they are your friends (And I thought my business partner was one) protect each other.

Sorry for the rant, but my life, and my little lady's life has been essentially ruined because of a filthy scumbag
thief business partner. My parents have been drug into this also. I shouldn't say ruined, though it feels like it.
Its been pretty crappy for quite some time.

If you go back in my posts years and years, in threads that said "don't have a business partner" I said its fine,
we get along fine, we work together great... I was wrong. Don't have a business partner. I should have just
shoved a 4 foot diameter dildo up my ass. It would have cost less, and probably wouldn't have hurt as much...
That was a 20+ year friend that did this shit, that makes it even worse.

Protect yourself, and if they are your friends, protect them too.

Miguels244 · Jul 16, 2015

Finding work for a machine shop 'should' be easier than for an engineering startup...which is what I have experience in.
People know what a machine shop does.
My perspective is as a client.

A machine list and preferred services are what I like to see when a machine shop comes calling.
Short turn, weird alloys, high tolerance, easy stuff but cheap, stock list.
What you are offering your potential clients is what you are BEST at doing.
I use several different shops depending on what I need done.
No shop can do everything well...don't pretend you can.
That just says you do many things poorly.

Let us know if you can weld AND true something.
Have a lapping table? Cool.

If you are just starting ask for the chance to quote, if you don't get the job, ask why. Be up front and say you are trying to learn the process. Many firms will be happy to have another shop available.

Ask what a potential client needs to qualify your shop, keep it clean in case a client visit is needed.

Remember, we have needs. We need to know you will do the job on time and meet specs.
Sometimes we need a guy with a bport that will just hammer out 1000 brackets.
Worthashit clients will prefer honesty up front regarding your capabilities.

3t3d · Jul 16, 2015

Bob,
Had the accountant rob me blind. Cannot measure the level of damage.
Went to court. DA files criminal charges.

She is ordered to pay, but DA claims there is no way to FORCE her to pay.

I get about a dollar or two a week.
GOOD Luck!!

IeliteENGINEER · Jul 17, 2015

I've never seen friends work yet, if your thinking this is a 9-5 regular job off at the weekend great way of life think again! One of the three of you will be the weak link and if not one of you it will be one of the girlfriends wives, and after you clocked up 60 hours that week he's on 20 both getting the same paycheck puts a bad taste in your mouth. The only way to work this is you only get paid for the hours you work and no one dips into cash flow ever no matter what,business partner are the worst you want to invest money back in they want a dividend I wouldn't leave my job to work as a partner with friends not worth the headache, me and my father are partners and when he leaves the business which after 10 years is only starting your make a decent profit will be mine. What happens if your friends say you know what my wife had a baby and I want out I'm selling a machine to get back what I've put in,what then? We went trough all this on other adventures and it will happen with 6 people involved.

Zonko · Jul 17, 2015

Bobw said:
Going through this shit right now. Somebody that I thought was a good friend since I was barely 18... Stuffing it up my ass. Been stuffing it up
my ass further and further for years.... It finally had to stop.

Digging into paperwork... Looking at stuff that I never thought I had to look at. Filthy fucking scumbag thief.

I'm at 111 days with absolutely no pay, none, zip, zero, nada. Averaging 100+ hours a week again. I did 115 working hours in
6 days about a month ago. pulled a straight 31 hours a bit ago. Over 6k out of my pocket paying company bills. Tucking
tail and having customers that hand write checks, write checks to suppliers because the bills were months overdue.

Corporate paperwork taken,so opening a secure bank account has been a bitch, and he took the bottom 90 checks out of the
stack. I've been stock piling customer checks, but apparently customers have been paying me directly, so (hopefully not) they are
going to get dragged into this cluster fuck of lies and thievery. If that wasn't clear, I've stayed straight up and above board.
Not one stinky nickel has gone into my pocket.

"you might be able to get a small check at the end of the month, and oh, here's an overdue bill" Scumbag!!!

My better half went on vacation without me.... AGAIN because I had to work, and that cocksucker just took a 5 week vacation after wiping
out the bank account.

But he didn't do it, the checks were written to another company that for some reason has the initials of this company. And
has absolutely no association what so ever.
What I (and him on the rare occasion he came to work)say EVERYTIME I've answered the phone for the past 8 years.
What our customers refer to us as, what is written on material tubes and
in notes on PO's. And what was actually on the printed checks back quite a few years ago I found out today... The initials of
our work order system... Lying sack of shit.

Lawyers aren't cheap. That new truck you wanted, the lawyer can afford it. Though in my case, its the least amount of money I've been
fucked out of lately, so its a bargain.

They may be friends, but they also might be scumbag filthy fucking thief business partners.

If they are your friends (And I thought my business partner was one) protect each other.

Sorry for the rant, but my life, and my little lady's life has been essentially ruined because of a filthy scumbag
thief business partner. My parents have been drug into this also. I shouldn't say ruined, though it feels like it.
Its been pretty crappy for quite some time.

If you go back in my posts years and years, in threads that said "don't have a business partner" I said its fine,
we get along fine, we work together great... I was wrong. Don't have a business partner. I should have just
shoved a 4 foot diameter dildo up my ass. It would have cost less, and probably wouldn't have hurt as much...
That was a 20+ year friend that did this shit, that makes it even worse.

Protect yourself, and if they are your friends, protect them too.

*Speechless*

You post made me quite sad, the only person in the world i would consider going into buisiness with is an old friend...known him since i was 18, too.
I don't think he is a thief or a liar, have met few people as honest and straight as him, but one never knows....you probably thought the same back then. And people change, sometimes for the worst.
A good reminder to stay ever vigilant, that for sure.

I hope you find a way out of this that doesn't ruin your life any further....

Mike1974 · Jul 17, 2015

Bobw said:
Going through this shit right now. Somebody that I thought was a good friend since I was barely 18... Stuffing it up my ass. Been stuffing it up
my ass further and further for years.... It finally had to stop.

Digging into paperwork... Looking at stuff that I never thought I had to look at. Filthy fucking scumbag thief.

I'm at 111 days with absolutely no pay, none, zip, zero, nada. Averaging 100+ hours a week again. I did 115 working hours in
6 days about a month ago. pulled a straight 31 hours a bit ago. Over 6k out of my pocket paying company bills. Tucking
tail and having customers that hand write checks, write checks to suppliers because the bills were months overdue.

Corporate paperwork taken,so opening a secure bank account has been a bitch, and he took the bottom 90 checks out of the
stack. I've been stock piling customer checks, but apparently customers have been paying me directly, so (hopefully not) they are
going to get dragged into this cluster fuck of lies and thievery. If that wasn't clear, I've stayed straight up and above board.
Not one stinky nickel has gone into my pocket.

"you might be able to get a small check at the end of the month, and oh, here's an overdue bill" Scumbag!!!

My better half went on vacation without me.... AGAIN because I had to work, and that cocksucker just took a 5 week vacation after wiping
out the bank account.

But he didn't do it, the checks were written to another company that for some reason has the initials of this company. And
has absolutely no association what so ever.
What I (and him on the rare occasion he came to work)say EVERYTIME I've answered the phone for the past 8 years.
What our customers refer to us as, what is written on material tubes and
in notes on PO's. And what was actually on the printed checks back quite a few years ago I found out today... The initials of
our work order system... Lying sack of shit.

Lawyers aren't cheap. That new truck you wanted, the lawyer can afford it. Though in my case, its the least amount of money I've been
fucked out of lately, so its a bargain.

They may be friends, but they also might be scumbag filthy fucking thief business partners.

If they are your friends (And I thought my business partner was one) protect each other.

Sorry for the rant, but my life, and my little lady's life has been essentially ruined because of a filthy scumbag
thief business partner. My parents have been drug into this also. I shouldn't say ruined, though it feels like it.
Its been pretty crappy for quite some time.

If you go back in my posts years and years, in threads that said "don't have a business partner" I said its fine,
we get along fine, we work together great... I was wrong. Don't have a business partner. I should have just
shoved a 4 foot diameter dildo up my ass. It would have cost less, and probably wouldn't have hurt as much...
That was a 20+ year friend that did this shit, that makes it even worse.

Protect yourself, and if they are your friends, protect them too.

Sorry to hear about your troubles. It sucks sucks sucks that a 'friend' did this to you. All I can say is keep in mind "this too shall pass".

Johnny N · Jul 17, 2015

I second going it alone ! just watched a new start up self destruct when one of the partners spent 3 months takings on hard drugs.

For work, you should be keeping an eye on the plum jobs going through your current work place, that you know the customers are not happy with service or price. Network as much as you can before you jump ship. Try and get yourself into a role where you have customer contact.

metalmaster10 · Jul 17, 2015

If you start a business with friends plan to exit minus something. You will likely lose either the friend, or the business. Sometimes both.
Same with starting a business and marriage at the same time. If one is not established first and strong the 2 will fight for time and you can't give enough time to both to make them work.
There are exceptions to the rule, but don't count on it... That would be setting yourself up for failure.
Get everything, EVERYTHING In writing as said before, even stuff that "does not matter", because it will at some point.

Mcgyver · Jul 17, 2015

metalmaster10 said:
If you start a business with friends plan to exit minus something. You will likely lose either the friend, or the business. Sometimes both.

right on. Yeah it seems all warm and fuzzy, there's strength in numbers and you get to hang out with your pals. a nice fairytale.

reality reminds me of that expression, "An elephant is horse built by committee". A business isn't a democracy or consensus, there needs to be a decision maker, person who sets strategy, and person who is able/willing to fire those who aren't part of executing the strategy or standing in the way of it. Good leaders of course involve the team listen to their people etc, but end of the day it has to be one person making the calls.

how does that fit with 3 pals starting a business?

wheelieking71 · Jul 17, 2015

Bobw said:
Going through this shit right now. Somebody that I thought was a good friend since I was barely 18... Stuffing it up my ass. Been stuffing it up
my ass further and further for years.... It finally had to stop.

Digging into paperwork... Looking at stuff that I never thought I had to look at. Filthy fucking scumbag thief.

I'm at 111 days with absolutely no pay, none, zip, zero, nada. Averaging 100+ hours a week again. I did 115 working hours in
6 days about a month ago. pulled a straight 31 hours a bit ago. Over 6k out of my pocket paying company bills. Tucking
tail and having customers that hand write checks, write checks to suppliers because the bills were months overdue.

Corporate paperwork taken,so opening a secure bank account has been a bitch, and he took the bottom 90 checks out of the
stack. I've been stock piling customer checks, but apparently customers have been paying me directly, so (hopefully not) they are
going to get dragged into this cluster fuck of lies and thievery. If that wasn't clear, I've stayed straight up and above board.
Not one stinky nickel has gone into my pocket.

"you might be able to get a small check at the end of the month, and oh, here's an overdue bill" Scumbag!!!

My better half went on vacation without me.... AGAIN because I had to work, and that cocksucker just took a 5 week vacation after wiping
out the bank account.

But he didn't do it, the checks were written to another company that for some reason has the initials of this company. And
has absolutely no association what so ever.
What I (and him on the rare occasion he came to work)say EVERYTIME I've answered the phone for the past 8 years.
What our customers refer to us as, what is written on material tubes and
in notes on PO's. And what was actually on the printed checks back quite a few years ago I found out today... The initials of
our work order system... Lying sack of shit.

Lawyers aren't cheap. That new truck you wanted, the lawyer can afford it. Though in my case, its the least amount of money I've been
fucked out of lately, so its a bargain.

They may be friends, but they also might be scumbag filthy fucking thief business partners.

If they are your friends (And I thought my business partner was one) protect each other.

Sorry for the rant, but my life, and my little lady's life has been essentially ruined because of a filthy scumbag
thief business partner. My parents have been drug into this also. I shouldn't say ruined, though it feels like it.
Its been pretty crappy for quite some time.

If you go back in my posts years and years, in threads that said "don't have a business partner" I said its fine,
we get along fine, we work together great... I was wrong. Don't have a business partner. I should have just
shoved a 4 foot diameter dildo up my ass. It would have cost less, and probably wouldn't have hurt as much...
That was a 20+ year friend that did this shit, that makes it even worse.

Protect yourself, and if they are your friends, protect them too.

I hate to quote that whole post, because, well, its long, and its sad.
But, I have to ask:
Why don't you just walk away Bob? If you have been fucked that hard, what have you got to loose?
Drop the whole shebang in his lap, and go get a job. Can't be worse than 100+hrs a week for free!
He is obviously never there. Load everything that isn't bolted down in your truck, and drive away.
Fuck it, take the Fadals as well. I am sure you can pull it off one way or another. Your crafty.
Start over. By yourself! Starting an LLC couldn't be easier. Just form a new company, and carry on right where you are at doing your own work.
WTF?! What are we missing here?
If he owns the building? Or the machines? And catches on, and tells you to GTFO? Then GTFO.
If you don't want to return the favor by stooping to his level, for moral and ethical reasons? I get that. And agree for the most part.
Sorry, I don't mean to pry. But, I am sure there are no prison guards around your shop.
Forcing you to work for free at gun-point. I don't get it? Why are you still trudging away?

I see this story pop up occasionally. "my partner effed me over". What is it that stops people from "effing" back?
And once a guy knows it is happening, why does he prolong the agony?

I guess in your case, you are trying to save the company, and eventually get him out of the picture?
At least, I think I can kinda read that in to what you wrote? If that's what you are doing, best of luck to you! I hope the high-road prevails for you.

I know, I have a raging temper. If I discovered something like you describe was happening to me, I would end up in jail.
I also know, it would never happen to me. I figured out at a very young age. Don't mix friends and business.
Fresh out of high-school, lots of my friends wanted out of their parents houses. Couldn't afford to do anything on their own.
Lots of them would get places splitting the rent. I can't think of a single one, that wasn't a monogamous relationship, that worked.
I saw lots of life long friendships soiled over the monthly rent.

I just recently had to let my step-daughter learn that lesson on her own. Pretty sure she will remember the lesson.
It sucked for her to finish out that lease all by herself while her "friend" free-loaded after she quit her job. And, wouldn't leave.
I actually think she is still there, freeloading off the landlord. There are some fucked-up laws protecting thieves. I will tell you that straight-up!

And, my daughter was the "ass-hole" when she moved instead of renewing the lease!!!!

3t3d · Jul 17, 2015

Anybody that thinks that starting a partnership with a life long BEST friend, and that the small details will all be all right, has never been to a divorce proceeding.

Bobw · Jul 17, 2015

see this story pop up occasionally. "my partner effed me over". What is it that stops people from "effing" back?

Ethics I guess? The 2 wrongs don't make a right thing? I have a conscience and I have to live with myself? Laws?

All "effing" will be done legally and legitimately. He doesn't even want anything to do with this place. :rolleyes5:

Temper? I learned a long time ago that getting all pissed off and destroying stuff doesn't do anybody any good. I
hadn't been in a rage in a long time... I lost my shit a couple of times.. There is an office here that is now
literally a pile of rubble... I lost my shit again at home one day, did some damage to the back porch, almost
got the grill over the fence and put two big holes in the side of the house.. Reduced a bench, a table and 4 chairs to
toothpicks. Scared the crap out of my better half and I ended up sitting there crying like a 2 year old, wondering what
I did to deserve this shit.... I know what I did wrong, I went to a normal work week, I went home every night. I was
putting in close to 5000 hours and literally sleeping at the shop over 200 nights a year... I couldn't do it anymore.

The frustration and anger had to come out somehow... I'm not proud of it, but the alternative would have landed me in
jail, and I won't do that to my folks or my better half.

I didn't even realize it, but I was a depressed zombie.. I was just going through the motions, so exhausted for years, I
could barely see straight, something similar to a woman who keeps getting her ass beat and keeps going back... And then
one day she wakes up and gets the hell out.. I finally cleaned the work benches, I don't think I had put a tool away in
2 years, I just didn't care..

Why are you still trudging away?

Because I see the bright side of it. I never had crunched the #'s... Let me back up a second.. My better half and my parents,
and customers have been great through this... My Dad has been really good, he'll stay on the phone with me for hours working
through stuff.... Back to the #'s, I didn't realize it, but he'd been keeping notes, and he'd ask questions... So when I did
finally sit down one day and crunch the #'s... They were actually the same as his... Once I saw those #'s.. I got pissed all
over again, and then things started to look pretty bright pink and rosy... There was a reason my Dad kept telling me things
will get better....I've got a goal now..
I won't tell you what it is, and its not even for me... I'm going to reach that goal in 2 years...

That's what is keeping me going.

wheelieking71 · Jul 17, 2015

Bobw said:
Ethics I guess? The 2 wrongs don't make a right thing? I have a conscience and I have to live with myself? Laws?

All "effing" will be done legally and legitimately. He doesn't even want anything to do with this place.

Temper? I learned a long time ago that getting all pissed off and destroying stuff doesn't do anybody any good. I
hadn't been in a rage in a long time... I lost my shit a couple of times.. There is an office here that is now
literally a pile of rubble... I lost my shit again at home one day, did some damage to the back porch, almost
got the grill over the fence and put two big holes in the side of the house.. Reduced a bench, a table and 4 chairs to
toothpicks. Scared the crap out of my better half and I ended up sitting there crying like a 2 year old, wondering what
I did to deserve this shit.... I know what I did wrong, I went to a normal work week, I went home every night. I was
putting in close to 5000 hours and literally sleeping at the shop over 200 nights a year... I couldn't do it anymore.

The frustration and anger had to come out somehow... I'm not proud of it, but the alternative would have landed me in
jail, and I won't do that to my folks or my better half.

I didn't even realize it, but I was a depressed zombie.. I was just going through the motions, so exhausted for years, I
could barely see straight, something similar to a woman who keeps getting her ass beat and keeps going back... And then
one day she wakes up and gets the hell out.. I finally cleaned the work benches, I don't think I had put a tool away in
2 years, I just didn't care..

Because I see the bright side of it. I never had crunched the #'s... Let me back up a second.. My better half and my parents,
and customers have been great through this... My Dad has been really good, he'll stay on the phone with me for hours working
through stuff.... Back to the #'s, I didn't realize it, but he'd been keeping notes, and he'd ask questions... So when I did
finally sit down one day and crunch the #'s... They were actually the same as his... Once I saw those #'s.. I got pissed all
over again, and then things started to look pretty bright pink and rosy... There was a reason my Dad kept telling me things
will get better....I've got a goal now..
I won't tell you what it is, and its not even for me... I'm going to reach that goal in 2 years...

That's what is keeping me going.

Good for you! I have a feeling you will prevail.

How To start finding work for a new machine shop?

Plastic

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