Hvac - anyone have experience with VRF technology

So I purchased a small shop on a big piece of land recently. We are almost finished renovating the small shop and will start construction on the 15,000 sqft shop.

It's tough to find trades that are worth a damn here so much of this I'll have to learn and do on my own with some select employees. So far it's working very well.

The small shop is 4000 sqft and no HVAC yet, we just wrapped up the 6" closed cell foam sheet install and can keep it under 80 with a small 23500 btu unit. So my thoughts are to use a Trane vrf system that I've had laying around.

No one local wants to install it so it's all on me... That said, who here is familiar with VRF systems that wouldn't mind answering a few questions?

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Photo for reference.

Planning on doing 2 loops and 3 zones


Reception area and main shop area on one loop

Server room on its own loop

This unit is neat in the fact you can heat and cool different zones at the same time.

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as9100d said:

So I purchased a small shop on a big piece of land recently. We are almost finished renovating the small shop and will start construction on the 15,000 sqft shop.

It's tough to find trades that are worth a damn here so much of this I'll have to learn and do on my own with some select employees. So far it's working very well.

The small shop is 4000 sqft and no HVAC yet, we just wrapped up the 6" closed cell foam sheet install and can keep it under 80 with a small 23500 btu unit. So my thoughts are to use a Trane vrf system that I've had laying around.

No one local wants to install it so it's all on me... That said, who here is familiar with VRF systems that wouldn't mind answering a few questions?

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Click to expand...

Don't know one dam thing about them.

DID find when I went to "roll my own" off of components, that the planning process that put several competing makes worth of FULL MANUALS onto my desk or 'puter screen ended up delivering every bit of info I could possibly have asked for, and in plain English.

Went with York (outta Mexico) and a Bristol recip outta Bristol, Virginia. Not a fan of Copeland scroll.

The folk who install any of this stuff (I know a few, have another as near neighbour) are faced with general industry and rolling maker's changes at constant intervals. One-offs are not unusual, capacity if nothing else.

They need all that documentation presented clear and straightforward to keep up - without screwing up - nearly as much as an outsider, coming in "cold" start.

Find the manuals "wherever" they are. Major makers have damned good ones.
You'll know right away if I'm wrong.

It's not an ignorant toilet install, no.

Neither was it built to be slow or HARD to do. Trane wanted to sell more than just the one unit, and with minimal screw-ups, Warranty hassle, or other comebacks.

Just make sure you "get your head fully into it", since it ain't your regular "Day Job", try to NOT multitask, risk getting distracted, and FUBAR something basic.

That simple.

thermite said:

Don't know one dam thing about them.

DID find when I went to "roll my own" off of components, that the planning process that put several competing makes worth of FULL MANUALS onto my desk or 'puter screen ended up delivering every bit of info I could possibly have asked for, and in plain English.

Went with York (outta Mexico) and a Bristol recip outta Bristol, Virginia. Not a fan of Copeland scroll.

The folk who install any of this stuff (I know a few, have another as near neighbour) are faced with general industry and rolling maker's changes at constant intervals. One-offs are not unusual, capacity if nothing else.

They need all that documentation presented clear and straightforward to keep up - without screwing up - nearly as much as an outsider, coming in "cold" start.

Find the manuals "wherever" they are. Major makers have damned good ones.
You'll know right away if I'm wrong.

It's not an ignorant toilet install, no.

Neither was it built to be slow or HARD to do. Trane wanted to sell more than just the one unit, and with minimal screw-ups, Warranty hassle, or other comebacks.

Just make sure you "get your head fully into it", since it ain't your regular "Day Job", try to NOT multitask, risk getting distracted, and FUBAR something basic.

That simple.

Click to expand...

I found the manuals. I've just never done any HVAC work before and have been loading up on YouTube info about supercool and super heat, etc.


I've got gages and all the tools picked out. I'll order them tomorrow morning.

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as9100d said:

I found the manuals. I've just never done any HVAC work before and have been loading up on YouTube info about supercool and super heat, etc.


I've got gages and all the tools picked out. I'll order them tomorrow morning.

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Click to expand...

Didn't have You Tube, back in '67. Read something called the "ASHRAE Handbook" if I got the name right? More than one volume, IIRC?

You tube can be WRONG as easily as RIGHT, so "grain of salt" unless you find the MAKER and "offical" training videos. As prolly exist - You Tube or their own websites.

Ignorance leads to avoidable expenses most of them honestly work to minimize.

My curse - or blessing - is that I'm sticking with higher efficiency and safer R-22 until a GENUINE improvement over the blended weasel piss and corrosion being used NOW is rolled out to replace it.

Should have bought an extra jug - even two, for trading material - when it was still only fifty bucks a go.

Yep 410a here. Not a bad freon to use though.

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as9100d said:

Yep 410a here. Not a bad freon to use though.

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Not the WORST of a bad bunch, no. The s**t used to replace R-12 holds that dubious honour.

The EU has been trying to get rid of that tribe of wankerish under-hood multi-component refrigerants for quite a few years already. A decade or more, is it?

Daimler-Benz and other "majors" even experimenting with Cee Oh TWO and NON-phase-change sensible heat Nitrogen at extreme pressures as potential subsititutes.

Others have been using highly flammable gases.

Even "classical" Ammonia is looking good, still-yet, and maybe someday "again", most especially off the "greenhouse gas" numbers turning out to be easily as important as holes in the Ozone.

"More work, please". The 4XX alleged-refrigerant family "cure" is proving-out to be worse than the disease it was meant to address.


I'm averse to doubling my operating costs and quadrupling the maintenance hassle if I have to move off R22.

As I will have to.

Chlorodifluoromethane - Wikipedia

Scroll down to the section titled:

"R-22, retrofit using substitute refrigerants"



To the good?

Anticipated the need. So I built my system with all components rated for EITHER/ANY. Or near-as--dammit.

The "outside" unit has all Copper coils and fins, is two to four times the size and heat exchange capacity otherwise needed. The inide "A" coil is oversized 50% or more and has the sexy valving as well.

A "starved charge" of R22 and a small compressor that found it easy to pump at half the nominal starting and running AC current were cheap as dirt to run.

Grand while it lasted. Twelve to fifteen bucks a month, "central" air, five month season average, 5 BR residence.

The alternatives of "spot" now-and-then window and zoned portables have tested at as much as $200/month, hottest month of the year.

Night air exchange is the experiment in its second season. Looking GREAT, too!
FRESH air, and lots of it, as byproduct is lovely! Especially with my smoking.. or HER Chinese "wok-ing!"

Best looking, so far.. OTHER THAN Ammonia?

Not HVAC-dominator BFBI China.

Japanese "finesse", rather:

Daikin. R-32 // HFC-32.

Daikin adopts R32 for key US products - Cooling Post

And each unit sold needs LESS gas, too? "What's not to like..." etc.

Two-zones with heat-pumps, three maybe? Add my night-air trick, and I should be back to being a happy camper!!!

Family curse, I have...

Ever I quit f**king about with technology, "just because I CAN"?

They'll prolly discover I've already been easily two years dead and gone!

Still beats runnin' out the bank account on booze and brothels.

Or so the grownups claim... They wouldn't LIE, would they?

"Too late NOW!"