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Industry 4.0 -- Anyone on the bandwagon?

ChipSplitter

Titanium
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Unless you've been living in a cave you'll recognize that term right away........:rolleyes5:

Has anyone tried it? There seems to be a major push for it from Sandvik, Makino, BIG Kaiser, DMG Mori, etc., etc.
Is it worth it to have "smart" boring bars, toolholders, spindles, and chucks?

:popcorn:
 
I researched this, and more generically OEE pretty extensively a couple years ago at a previous employer.

Here is my two cents: the cost of entry is ridiculous based on the ROI for low to medium volume work. It is more industry hype that statically does not live up to the claim. All this goes away with high volume and lights out work.

However, with the advancements being made, it can be worth it to buy 4.0 technology over standard when already planning to buy new.

I opted out of all the 4.0 stuff, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
 
Unless you've been living in a cave you'll recognize that term right away........:rolleyes5:

Has anyone tried it? There seems to be a major push for it from Sandvik, Makino, BIG Kaiser, DMG Mori, etc., etc.
Is it worth it to have "smart" boring bars, toolholders, spindles, and chucks?

:popcorn:

If you can't get smart operators, get smart tools?
 
i think all of us are doing it some extent, if you take definition as digitalizing/automating manufacturing. My plasma cutter embraces Industry 4.0. My manual loading and unloading of it, and carry a USB stick to with a program does not.

For sure its a buzzword. Lots would say is BS. To me its wake up call to get off your ass and figure out how to get onto path to better manufacturing that I'll give a good productivity boast. It does motivate me - I'm thinking way past just upgrading here. I'm sick of being Smallville and in a rustbelt business and would like a business that can more easily scale. So I'm looking at and developing products to help others move to 4.0.

Starting with forming a new venture with a bunch of bright young engineers, software, vision, machine learning guys and we're brainstorming products.

Who knows, maybe we'll fall flat on our faces, doesn't matter....its a gas trying and fun working with these young guys. I realized a while ago I don't have to be rich to be happy, but I do have to be pursuing something that might make me rich :D
 
It means nothing. Do you have devices connected to your network? Bang. You now have an Internet-of-Things. Industry 4.0 :rolleyes5:

Our machines are connected to the server. We do some automatic data collection. We program from a central tool database, which is also on the server.

It is prudent to let technology mature to some extent, but I would say in general that shops which are slow to adapt will suffer. I try really hard to embrace things that make sense as soon as they are viable. E.G. We don't have any use for a bluetooth boring bar, but I'd happily go out and buy one for the right project.
 
Chipsplitter

I feel the same way about ind 4.0 as I do about that advert disguised as an article. It is a tool to market stuff.
 
It is prudent to let technology mature to some extent, but I would say in general that shops which are slow to adapt will suffer. I try really hard to embrace things that make sense as soon as they are viable. E.G. We don't have any use for a bluetooth boring bar, but I'd happily go out and buy one for the right project.

My sentiments exactly.

There are applications where going to a new level of automation makes total sense.

A good example is barcode scanning. A laser cuts blanks and etches barcodes (or QR codes), the parts are wheeled to a pressbrake, the operator scans the code and..presto, program loaded! Tool breakage detection on a VMC is another good example.

However, I suspect some of these "innovations" are designed to milk the end user either with upfront costs or failing that, monstrous data charges for the 1001 "connected devices".
 
My sentiments exactly.

There are applications where going to a new level of automation makes total sense.

A good example is barcode scanning. A laser cuts blanks and etches barcodes (or QR codes), the parts are wheeled to a pressbrake, the operator scans the code and..presto, program loaded! Tool breakage detection on a VMC is another good example.

However, I suspect some of these "innovations" are designed to milk the end user either with upfront costs or failing that, monstrous data charges for the 1001 "connected devices".
Wrong-o sonny…."Robot removes part from laser table, applies it to press brake, then takes bent part to weld table, holding it in proper place while a second robot arm applies the weld.

Third robot are removes completed assembly from table, hangs onto hook for paint/powder coat line."

Brain dead monkey unloads part from paint/power coat line when completed....:D
 
It means nothing. Do you have devices connected to your network? Bang. You now have an Internet-of-Things. Industry 4.0 :rolleyes5:

Our machines are connected to the server. We do some automatic data collection. We program from a central tool database, which is also on the server.

It is prudent to let technology mature to some extent, but I would say in general that shops which are slow to adapt will suffer. I try really hard to embrace things that make sense as soon as they are viable. E.G. We don't have any use for a bluetooth boring bar, but I'd happily go out and buy one for the right project.

Not directed at you specifically, but that ^ means very little without some form of management. Last job did this, had a tool crib with a dedicated tooling guy, tool profiles (NX) setup with speeds & feeds, excel file shared tracking programming ops, machines, etc. Come to find out after a month or so there, no one had updated the tooling inside NX in years so alot of tools were not available. Setup sheets, even though pretty well detailed were often overlooked. I remember one guy scrapped a big piece of P20 because he ass-u-med a tool that *they* always used was the one for the job, even though it was labeled on the setup sheet with diameter and a part number for shank and insert... :rolleyes5:

I heard about that for weeks, but hey whatever. :nutter:
 
Cost of entry for us was prohibitive. I declined it 100%. We do fine without it and have the budget for it, still didn't feel like it was worth the investment.



Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 
Cost of entry for us was prohibitive. I declined it 100%. We do fine without it and have the budget for it, still didn't feel like it was worth the investment.



Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Cost of what, specifically?

I see "Industry 4.0" through the same lens as Boosted does apparently. A broad scope of various and not always related things, that amounts to a nice buzzword for the vendors of said things.

We have connected machines, and an (almost) exclusively electronic/digital workflow. We leverage the digital offerings of our tooling vendors, but we don't have any wireless digital boring heads or intelligent dynamically tuned boring bars etc. We have some new machines with smart controls, as well as some ancient workhorses with rs232 connections and monochrome crts.
 
I live under a rock, I have been there 10 years. Ever since I got data capped internet I stopped looking at anything that is demonstrated by video. I haven't been to a trade show in 15 years. Sounds like a buzzword for the latest and greatest system of BS. I last worked for the man over 25 years ago, all I can remember being subjected to was Taguchi methods, TQM, and a bunch of idiot consultants from the long since defunct Thomas Group. The Thomas Group was far and above the worst. They got a million dollar contract and I am positive the director that hired them took a kick back. They were about the most pathetic bunch of out of place knuckleheads known to man. It seemed all of their previous consulting experience revolved around manufacturing that was not assisted by much in the way of automation. They kept video taping and timing people while not understanding a guy could go take a 10 minute dump without effecting his productivity.
 
I live under a rock, I have been there 10 years. Ever since I got data capped internet I stopped looking at anything that is demonstrated by video. I haven't been to a trade show in 15 years. Sounds like a buzzword for the latest and greatest system of BS. I last worked for the man over 25 years ago, all I can remember being subjected to was Taguchi methods, TQM, and a bunch of idiot consultants from the long since defunct Thomas Group. The Thomas Group was far and above the worst. They got a million dollar contract and I am positive the director that hired them took a kick back. They were about the most pathetic bunch of out of place knuckleheads known to man. It seemed all of their previous consulting experience revolved around manufacturing that was not assisted by much in the way of automation. They kept video taping and timing people while not understanding a guy could go take a 10 minute dump without effecting his productivity.

Yeah but 4.0 has a "Band" ? along with a "Wagon"...:D

Much like the Titanic....:D
 
Does anyone remember what Industry 3.0 was? I feel like we skipped a release. Personally I'm waiting for Industry 6G.
 
Cost of what, specifically?

I see "Industry 4.0" through the same lens as Boosted does apparently. A broad scope of various and not always related things, that amounts to a nice buzzword for the vendors of said things.

We have connected machines, and an (almost) exclusively electronic/digital workflow. We leverage the digital offerings of our tooling vendors, but we don't have any wireless digital boring heads or intelligent dynamically tuned boring bars etc. We have some new machines with smart controls, as well as some ancient workhorses with rs232 connections and monochrome crts.
Digital Bluetooth boring heads, RFID tool data in each machine, etc.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
 
Not directed at you specifically, but that ^ means very little without some form of management.

Strongly agreed. In our case each tool assembly is given an unique ID, and tool data is exported directly from CAM into the machine over ethernet.

The hardest part is preventing entropy to the tool database from folks making small undocumented changes.
 
My personal view on 4.0 is that a lot of it is "solutions looking for a problem". So much of it is technology based that, IMO, is kind of "over developed" (way more functional than needed). This is especially true about IOT (Internet of Things). I did a demo tool for a conference that demo-ed some of this and, while it was easy to implement, I just couldn't see must justification for it. So much of it would be due to other shortcomings. Who wants to get a text every time a certain door is opened or a temperature drops at a certain point? To me, that's just indicating a lack of controls.

Another issue is that a lot of the 4.0 technology is being pushed on social media that didn't exist when things like CNC, PLC and regular robot technology came out. But now that things like 3D printing, IOT, cobots, etc. are coming out, they're all making news via twitter and other social media. I listened to someone do a presentation on cobots and it was absolutely clear that they had very little understanding about previously existing robot technology and the low specs on many of the new cobots (especially Rethink, dang they are slow, weak and inaccurate!).

I am by no means "against" technology, I just think 4.0 is overall being "oversold".

The Dude
 
Does anyone remember what Industry 3.0 was? I feel like we skipped a release. Personally I'm waiting for Industry 6G.

The first industrial revolution was the introduction of machines, actually the steam engine. First slow, then faster after Watt, culmination in the Big Boy locomotives of the 1940s.

Second industrial revolution was electrification. The central power houses with transmission of energy to halls full of equipment by belts were replaced by as many electric motors as there were mills and shapers and lathes.

Third industrial revolution was numerical mechanical or electrical control instead of man[FONT=&quot]’s moves[/FONT]. It began with the Jacquard loom and ended in CNC.

Industry 4 is supposed to be the replacement of human labour altogether and therefore a stillbirth. Future generations will likely EDM four holes in the corners a name plate because they understand the process allows great precision and doesn’t make much noise. Like my last boss who likes to mill for minutes on CNC lathes simply because it[FONT=&quot]’[/FONT]s possible. He didn’t like my idea of broaching the contour which would have brought the minutes down to five seconds. No, really, industry 4 is the final get-together of the biggest airheads there are.
 








 
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