insert cost

Mad Mazak · May 31, 2018

With all this talk about tariffs. When will we see a increase in carbide cost. Most of my carbide is Sandvix.

:http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/images/smilies/frown.gif(

DDoug · May 31, 2018

Mad Mazak said:
With all this talk about tariffs. When will we see a increase in carbide cost. Most of my carbide is Sandvix.:http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/images/smilies/frown.gif(

Oh MY God !

If that happens, impeach Trump !
Or move to the socialist capital, denmark...take bernie with you.

Jashley73 · May 31, 2018

Short answer, is expect a price increase every January on carbide inserts & endmills, unless the economy is really down.

The recent tarrifs by the trump administration so far have simply been on aluminum & steel imports, not tungsten carbide raw materials.

Bobw · May 31, 2018

Jashley73 said:
Short answer, is expect a price increase every January on carbide inserts & endmills, unless the economy is really down.

The recent tarrifs by the trump administration so far have simply been on aluminum & steel imports, not tungsten carbide raw materials.

That's because Raw Tungsten generally comes from China.. And apparently the administration is now more concerned with jobs in China than the US.

Jashley73 · May 31, 2018

Bobw said:
That's because Raw Tungsten generally comes from China.. And apparently the administration is now more concerned with jobs in China than the US.

Not touching the political aspect of that with a 10-foot pole, but yes, a lot of the raw tungsten & tantalum comes from China. It's typical however for manufacturers to adjust their prices every year however. Keep in mind that a majority of the carbide inserts in the USA, are imported from places like Sweden, Germany, Israel & Japan. I would imagine that most of the carbide rod comes from Europe & Japan as well.

guest · May 31, 2018

Well, I was just quoted 3.04/lb for 3/4" 303 round bars. That was NAS (North American Steel) material.

That's approx 2x .50/lb increases so far this year.

Finegrain · May 31, 2018

guest said:
Well, I was just quoted 3.04/lb for 3/4" 303 round bars. That was NAS (North American Steel) material.

That's approx 2x .50/lb increases so far this year.

Same here

. I almost passed out when I got pricing for some 303 a couple weeks ago. Ended up being Spanish material, not USA.

Regards.

Mike

CarbideBob · Jun 1, 2018

I really don't see a price increase on carbide tools coming due to this recent flurry of action.
A tariff on Tungsten, WC(tungsten carbide powder) or APT(ore) would make no sense as the is no capability of supplying this from inside the US.
There would be no winners here to support so it would be a losing deal for the country.

Retaliation trade war type stuff is a possibility, be it very remote.
Piss off your partners enough when they know they hold a large amount of the worlds stock on something and they might go looking for using some things you need.
Bob

DMF_TomB · Jun 1, 2018

cobalt used in carbide and in electric car batteries. i hear they are reopening a cobalt mine in Canada

DMF_TomB · Jun 1, 2018

CarbideBob said:
I really don't see a price increase on carbide tools coming due to this recent flurry of action.
A tariff on Tungsten, WC(tungsten carbide powder) or APT(ore) would make no sense as the is no capability of supplying this from inside the US.
There would be no winners here to support so it would be a losing deal for the country.

Retaliation trade war type stuff is a possibility, be it very remote.
Piss off your partners enough when they know they hold a large amount of the worlds stock on something and they might go looking for using some things you need.
Bob

.
Trump makes business decision every hour. you expect to keep up with him you better think a lot faster. Tariff change ? like i would expect Tariffs to change a few thousand times on thousands of materials daily, every day.
.
sort of like prices on commodities like pork bellies or bushels of corn price never stable and dont expect it. make a deal and price can change, dont make a deal price can change
.
with unemployment at record lows what better time to renegotiate
.
price of steel went up from tariff i thought it went up already unless you accept it going up 25% every month maybe 2500% price increase before end of year
.
in many countries ANY thing you buy, you negotiate price each time. each day each hour all items can change price. there is no fixed price. its how bad you want item and how bad store needs to sell it. many a time best thing is walk away when price too high
.
and yes i have come back to store hours later after looking in other stores and price was higher when i came back cause they knew i could not get a better price when i came back to store 2 hours later. worse thing is they were probably laughing at me about it. get used to it (price changes)

SND · Jun 1, 2018

I use mostly sandvik inserts, I noticed lately a lot more of them say Made in USA on the box. I wonder if they increasing production in the US.

CarbideBob · Jun 3, 2018

DMF_TomB said:
.
Trump makes business decision every hour. you expect to keep up with him you better think a lot faster. Tariff change ? like i would expect Tariffs to change a few thousand times on thousands of materials daily, every day.
......

I don't understand. Tariffs change by the minute just like the commodities market runs?
Not sure the connection.
Bob

Miguels244 · Jun 3, 2018

DMF_TomB said:
.
Trump makes business decision every hour. you expect to keep up with him you better think a lot faster. Tariff change ? like i would expect Tariffs to change a few thousand times on thousands of materials daily, every day.
.
sort of like prices on commodities like pork bellies or bushels of corn price never stable and dont expect it. make a deal and price can change, dont make a deal price can change
.
with unemployment at record lows what better time to renegotiate
.
price of steel went up from tariff i thought it went up already unless you accept it going up 25% every month maybe 2500% price increase before end of year
.
in many countries ANY thing you buy, you negotiate price each time. each day each hour all items can change price. there is no fixed price. its how bad you want item and how bad store needs to sell it. many a time best thing is walk away when price too high
.
and yes i have come back to store hours later after looking in other stores and price was higher when i came back cause they knew i could not get a better price when i came back to store 2 hours later. worse thing is they were probably laughing at me about it. get used to it (price changes)

What a waste of energy.
There’s a reason business doesn’t like uncertainty.
It’s an expensive distracting waste of energy.

gregormarwick · Jun 3, 2018

Jashley73 said:
Not touching the political aspect of that with a 10-foot pole, but yes, a lot of the raw tungsten & tantalum comes from China. It's typical however for manufacturers to adjust their prices every year however. Keep in mind that a majority of the carbide inserts in the USA, are imported from places like Sweden, Germany, Israel & Japan. I would imagine that most of the carbide rod comes from Europe & Japan as well.

I am not well informed on this matter, but don't Sandvik get a lot of their tungsten from South America?

Guest · Jun 3, 2018

Finegrain said:
Same here . I almost passed out when I got pricing for some 303 a couple weeks ago. Ended up being Spanish material, not USA.

Regards.

Mike

I wonder who is raising the prices, are the metal distributors just passing on the mill mark up or are they passing it on along with an increase of their own? Or did the prices from the domestic mills remain pretty much the same and the metal supply yards are increasing mark up? I have no idea where the 12L14 I recently bought came from, but it only went up only 10% from a two month old quote, where as some DOMESTIC aluminum jumped 30% in the same time frame. I did not even bother to ask why the increases where the opposite of the imposed tariffs if they were going to use that as a reason. It appears in my small world the suppliers just marked everything up regardless of country of origin.

CarbideBob · Jun 3, 2018

gregormarwick said:
I am not well informed on this matter, but don't Sandvik get a lot of their tungsten from South America?

China is the number one place it comes from and ten times the output of number two which is currently Vietnam.
Too be sure they control the pricing. They have also pushed too hard at times and seen recycling and reopening of shuttered mines cut into their market.
All of South America lumped together is not even in the top ten.

I did once meet a guy with a carbide making shop outside Mexico city and he was quite proud to show off his own tungsten mine behind the shop. From digging the dirt to finished carbide tools all inside what would be a city block.
I had never seen any operation like that.

In places in Africa you can literally dig the ore up with a shovel in your backyard but it has become a conflict mineral due to the politics of the region. In time this area may become a large producer and take #2.

Also of interest is Japan where cermets became king over carbide in the insert world.
Perhaps due to their dislike for China at one time.
Note who the big cermet makers are and some big tool names buy from others who have mastered this production and simply stick their name on it.
Bob

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