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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman109 View Post
    It's too bad that they ignore international business. On the other hand, I would never buy anything from MSC. They bought ENCO and killed it and then raised their prices. Their prices are simply ridiculous even if you are in the US and could buy from them.
    They did the same thing to Rutland. When I lived in So Cal I had a Rutland store on the way to my McMaster-Carr will calls. MSC bought out Rutland and pretty much did a 25% across the board price hike while at the same time decreasing the amount of common stocking items. F**K MSC.

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  3. #22
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    F**K MSC.


    ..............

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    Let's not forgot, they cannibalized J&L too...


    Crappy website, high prices, poor support - what's not to love?

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    Could be worse. It could be how Seco cannibalized Carboloy and gutted it to nothing but a shell of it's former self....
    Bob

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    Default Issue with the MSC Direct website

    What MSC has done to the industrial tool market with their hugeness, Amazon will eventually do the same to online shopping -- and most brick-and-mortar retail as well.

    I never shop on Amazon, because someday they're going to be way too big and powerful.

    We in manufacturing have seen it firsthand with MSC....

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    What MSC has done to the industrial tool market with their hugeness, Amazon will eventually do the same to online shopping -- and most brick-and-mortar retail as well.

    I never shop on Amazon, because someday they're going to be way too big and powerful.

    We in manufacturing have seen it firsthand with MSC....

    What's interesting though, is that MSC isn't really as "BIG" as they most people seem to think they are. Well, don't get me wrong, they're big, but by an annual revenue comparison, Fastenal is twice as big MSC, and Grainger is more than twice as large as Fastenal.

    I don't know much about Fastenal's online ordering & catalog, but MSC & Grainger depend a lot on their websites, but also integrating their websites/catalogs into large businesses' internal purchasing/req software. So, a customer that has an automated purchase-req/purchasing system, can integrate Grainger/MSC/McMaster Carr's catalog into their system, and send purchase req's & PO's near autonomously.

    With regards to Amazon doing the same with retail sales, it will be interesting. I was talking with a customer this week, who just sold a business that did online sales. He mentioned how sales tax on online sales was getting ready to go into effect, and how that might tip the scales between online vs. brick & mortar retail sales.

    It probably won't make too much difference, but at least it levels the playing field with regards to sales tax.

    (Man, we're really straying from the original discussion here...)


    Regarding MSC in particular, I don't necessarily think they're evil, and they do have some good qualities. 8pm order cutoff for next-day orders, and lots of inventory is very commendable, and no doubt probably earns them a large fraction of their business.

    Having learned more about how they operate & their sales margin requirements though, certainly explains why their pricing is often inflated. I guess you can't blame a business for trying to make a profit, but I do hear a lot how customers feel gouged regularly. So who's fault is that, honestly? Supply & demand...

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Could be worse. It could be how Seco cannibalized Carboloy and gutted it to nothing but a shell of it's former self....
    Bob
    Touche' Bob...

    How closely did you know those folks, from pre-Seco GE Carboloy days?

    While I was there at least, the story of consensus was that after Jack Welch tookover GE, that Carboloy was just one of many subsidiaries to get put on the chopping block, and thus, the sell to Seco. I think it was in 2008-2010 that Seco moved from the GE building on 8-mile rd, to where it is now in Troy. I don't know how long/when production ended of "Seco/Carboloy" product in Michigan. I know Seco had production of metal parts (cutter bodies) in Lenore City, TN, until around 2012-2013 or so, when Sandvik AB purchased the remaining shares of Seco Tools, and then started shifting production units around the US. Inventory was moved from Michigan to Kentucky, and the metal production was moved from Lenore City, back to Michigan.

    On a positive note though, Seco buying Niagara has been a huge boost to Niagara Cutter. They've flooded Niagara with money and are now pumping out tons & tons of carbide round tools. I don't know any of the people working there, so I can't comment on work life or culture. From the part of the business that I could/can see though, it seems like Seco buying Niagara was a huge positive for both.

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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jashley73 View Post
    Touche' Bob...

    How closely did you know those folks, from pre-Seco GE Carboloy days?

    While I was there at least, the story of consensus was that after Jack Welch tookover GE, that Carboloy was just one of many subsidiaries to get put on the chopping block, and thus, the sell to Seco. I think it was in 2008-2010 that Seco moved from the GE building on 8-mile rd, to where it is now in Troy. I don't know how long/when production ended of "Seco/Carboloy" product in Michigan. I know Seco had production of metal parts (cutter bodies) in Lenore City, TN, until around 2012-2013 or so, when Sandvik AB purchased the remaining shares of Seco Tools, and then started shifting production units around the US. Inventory was moved from Michigan to Kentucky, and the metal production was moved from Lenore City, back to Michigan.

    On a positive note though, Seco buying Niagara has been a huge boost to Niagara Cutter. They've flooded Niagara with money and are now pumping out tons & tons of carbide round tools. I don't know any of the people working there, so I can't comment on work life or culture. From the part of the business that I could/can see though, it seems like Seco buying Niagara was a huge positive for both.
    Completely off topic here, but Jashley, how does one get into selling carbide? Seem to remember you used to work as a machinist/programmer/setup(?) ...? PM if you want...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jashley73 View Post
    What's interesting though, is that MSC isn't really as "BIG" as they most people seem to think they are. Well, don't get me wrong, they're big, but by an annual revenue comparison, Fastenal is twice as big MSC, and Grainger is more than twice as large as Fastenal.

    I don't know much about Fastenal's online ordering & catalog, but MSC & Grainger depend a lot on their websites, but also integrating their websites/catalogs into large businesses' internal purchasing/req software. So, a customer that has an automated purchase-req/purchasing system, can integrate Grainger/MSC/McMaster Carr's catalog into their system, and send purchase req's & PO's near autonomously.

    With regards to Amazon doing the same with retail sales, it will be interesting. I was talking with a customer this week, who just sold a business that did online sales. He mentioned how sales tax on online sales was getting ready to go into effect, and how that might tip the scales between online vs. brick & mortar retail sales.

    It probably won't make too much difference, but at least it levels the playing field with regards to sales tax.

    (Man, we're really straying from the original discussion here...)


    Regarding MSC in particular, I don't necessarily think they're evil, and they do have some good qualities. 8pm order cutoff for next-day orders, and lots of inventory is very commendable, and no doubt probably earns them a large fraction of their business.

    Having learned more about how they operate & their sales margin requirements though, certainly explains why their pricing is often inflated. I guess you can't blame a business for trying to make a profit, but I do hear a lot how customers feel gouged regularly. So who's fault is that, honestly? Supply & demand...
    Not to beat a dead horse, but MSC can be competitive IF you work with a sales rep and get them to quote stuff, instead of ordering online thru their website. Of course that may or may not negate the ease of "ordering online" but still...

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    McMaster-Carr has those sizes I just checked, also even though they don't list brands pretty much everything they carry is of good quality. They are very weak in the insert tooling category unfortunately. Also their website and customer service is the gold standard.
    BS.....not if you are not in the USA. McMaster-Carr does not ship O-conus, even to APO addresses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Completely off topic here, but Jashley, how does one get into selling carbide? Seem to remember you used to work as a machinist/programmer/setup(?) ...? PM if you want...
    Shoot me a PM. I'll tell you want I know, and give you another name on the board if you want.

  18. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    I came up with it because I have manufactured race car parts, shipping them internationally for the last 30 years, and there was a time when auto racing was prohibited in Israel. Maybe longer ago than a couple years (time seems to compress as one gets older) but it really was. Since you admit you don't know about it, why argue? Are you Gordon in another life?
    I wasn't arguing and never said it wasn't illegal before. What you said just made me curious because of the huge Formula event (I just checked and it was in 2014). It's called being interested in things. Searching about this brought up the motor sports association, etc.

    So I looked more into it. It was illegal for a long time, but was mostly ignored by law enforcement. Official laws started in 2005 and after a few years it was basically allowed. This has absolutely nothing to do with the government blocking or not blocking a random supplier website. It's very obvious to anyone who knows even a little about what's it like here (regardless of your condescending tone).

    Re "Gordon in another life" I have no idea what you are talking about.

    Back on topic, I sent MSC the info they asked for and so far haven't heard back and no change. I have heard from several people in different countries in Europe who all get the same exact error message.

    Anyway thanks everyone for other suggestions.


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