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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I may have *said* this already... if you quit that job I am going to kick your ass!

    Seriously, you are sounding like Gorod preaching 'bout Denamrk... NO ONE has that great a job. And being a 'youngster' you don't know how good you have it likely.
    Ah well.. Galis had a plant-wide layoff, ISTR January of '65. Union shop, 30 hands as had seniority over me. So I went off and found another job. Get a phone call, August of '65 to come back to work.

    "Can't do it. Three-year contract, new job.", Sez I.

    "Great benefits, too. Food and beverages free, free health care including vision, dental, even plastic surgery if I need that, no deductible, no co-pay, no charge for lab work or pharma, either.

    Free housing, free food, free clothing, all the advanced training I can pass the tests to take.

    Thirty days a year fully paid vacation, free chance at air travel to take advantage of it, nearly world-wide, space available. "

    "Oh my GOD!" the personnel gal sez. "Where did you ever get a deal like THAT?"

    "Well.. there's a downside, of course. The free housing tends to be cheaply built and come with unpleasant neighbours and a heavy ration of noise. The free clothing comes all the same funky colours, and a Private Sojer, Regular Army, only sees $47.88 a month in cash."

    They DO pay better, nowadays.

    But the loud noises and the neighbours' rude behaviour are worse than ever, so yah still have to EARN it.



    Now. there's the other part. Handing the DoD (or MoD) what amounts to a blank check, to be enchased if the employer needs it. For any amount, up to and including yer life.

    Hold on a minute.

    Civilian employment.

    Just look at ourselves. Long years shoulder to the wheel. Not necessarily any greater say in what's to be done that day than a GI under orders. Some days, LESS.

    Not necessarily any lower risk, exposure to hazards, chemicals, and industrial - or even commuter - traffic, accidents as they can be.

    Is the civilian equivalent of that proverbial "blank check" REALLY NOT "any amount, up to and including your life"? Or the slower waste of it?

    Or are we just kidding ourselves it is?

    A service person under arms is at least able to fight back at enemies. With help, even recommend how best, and where.

    Are we as well blessed in our civilian roles? Or more often just helpless fuckees?

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  3. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    I know exactly what you mean, and the UK NHS thinks exactly this.
    Both my inlaws when they passed (82), we were told "they had a good innings"... and I was told by the registrar that "80 is the NHS magic number". They really have to justify spending much resource on you when you've passed that birthday...

    But, some people are different. Take my 'ol chap. He's 80 and still up on a roof when he needs to, and doing building work. And has told me he won't stop until he can't do it any longer.
    If he was rushed into hospital for anything, they better prepare themselves for some disagreements because he isn't the average 80 year old.
    So guidelines can be okay, but it depends...
    Sure, exclusions always exist. A good friend of mine's mother is in her 90's. When I visit I will find her outside working in her garden. She still grows much of what they eat, as she has their whole life. She cans, she does all of those things.

    Based on family history, it is unlikely that I will make it to 80. It is a fact of life. Statistically I look at the majority of 80 year olds I see and do not see a life worth continuing to live. It is not something to look forward to. My gene's do not point towards that. So what? Who do I sue for genetic discrimination? It isn't my fault I was born with these gene's. (sarcasm FYI)

    I would rather enjoy a full fun life before 80, and if I make it... hell, I'll figure it out when I get there. But I am sure not spending my life's work to get me there!

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  5. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    Sure, exclusions always exist. A good friend of mine's mother is in her 90's. When I visit I will find her outside working in her garden. She still grows much of what they eat, as she has their whole life. She cans, she does all of those things.

    Based on family history, it is unlikely that I will make it to 80. It is a fact of life. Statistically I look at the majority of 80 year olds I see and do not see a life worth continuing to live. It is not something to look forward to. My gene's do not point towards that. So what? Who do I sue for genetic discrimination? It isn't my fault I was born with these gene's. (sarcasm FYI)

    I would rather enjoy a full fun life before 80, and if I make it... hell, I'll figure it out when I get there. But I am sure not spending my life's work to get me there!
    Well I have passed that landmark and I am not complaining. I still enjoy a pint or three,have plenty of holidays,walk the dogs in the local forest,dine out on Tuesdays with friends,have Wednesday club every Thursday down the pub.You never know who will turn up,ages between 18 and 80 plus,but you can guarantee we will be laughing with and at each other.
    There is a lot more and I would not change any of it. I have been reliably informed that you are a long time dead.

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  7. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    My wife and I have had many arguments about this topic. I won't spend a dime to fund a doctors vacation home, so Summa or Cleveland Clinic can post record profits. I pray I die like my grandfather. Dead before he hit the ground. They even tried to keep him alive. My mother was pissed since he had a DNR. I mean seriously, the guy had been laying in the snow and ice long enough to melt a "body" shape. At the hospital the doctors rushed my mom into the ER where they had him on life support trying to keep him alive. He had been dead for over 2 hours at this point.

    We have a long standing joke. When it is my time, I will go on one last backpacking trip. With no plans of returning.

    My wife's concern is that she will get caught by Forest Service personnel smearing peanut butter on me in hopes that the bears will eat me.
    Chin up now, you may find you are equal to a certain fellow by the name of Hugh Glass

  8. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    There is a lot more and I would not change any of it. I have been reliably informed that you are a long time dead.
    Good on yah. Time eventually does does come for dyin'?

    Nobody in MY family has failed at it, yet. Job gits done. Like any other.

    Mind, we be right notorious procrastinators, often decades, if not scores of years late for our own funerals. Somebody else's job to worry about hurry it out.

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  10. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Good on yah. Time eventually does does come for dyin'?

    Nobody in MY family has failed at it, yet. Job gits done. Like any other.

    Mind, we be right notorious procrastinators, often decades, if not scores of years late for our own funerals. Somebody else's job to worry about hurry it out.
    I know you are right Bill but I still have a couple of bob in the bank and until that has been spent I am not going anywhere.
    The man upstairs may whistle and shout but I will just cock a deaf one.
    Oh bugger,I should not have said that,I am not deaf. But if I were I would just go to the doctor and get it sorted. AND,in the words of the immortal,FOC. (Sorry fellas,just couldn't resist).

  11. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    I know you are right Bill but I still have a couple of bob in the bank and until that has been spent I am not going anywhere.
    The man upstairs may whistle and shout but I will just cock a deaf one.
    Oh bugger,I should not have said that,I am not deaf. But if I were I would just go to the doctor and get it sorted. AND,in the words of the immortal,FOC. (Sorry fellas,just couldn't resist).
    I feel like you just laid an excellent opening to a Monty sketch... you dying mid... something

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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    I know you are right Bill but I still have a couple of bob in the bank and until that has been spent I am not going anywhere.
    The man upstairs may whistle and shout but I will just cock a deaf one.
    Oh bugger,I should not have said that,I am not deaf. But if I were I would just go to the doctor and get it sorted. AND,in the words of the immortal,FOC. (Sorry fellas,just couldn't resist).
    LOL! There's the attitude.

    Late for your own funeral so's yah can enjoy a piss-up at the wake without concern over a hangover, gittin' habituated.... or even having to pick-up that last massive bar tab!

    F**k 'em.

    Even if they CAN take a joke!


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  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    I feel like you just laid an excellent opening to a Monty sketch... you dying mid... something
    If you are suggesting dying mid....then absolutely no chance.
    I've tried chasing her round the bedroom but when I catch her I can't remember why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    If you are suggesting dying mid....then absolutely no chance.
    I've tried chasing her round the bedroom but when I catch her I can't remember why.
    Git to old to cut the mustard, try licking the jar. It'll all.."come back to you".

    Oh. Wait. ???

    Welll.

    Guess that at least explains the SE grin and stir-fried dog food, yah?

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    Here is a chart that reflects what I have been seeing over the last 20 years in health care. At my clinic, I see about 5 docs, 10 "healthcare providers", and 20 people behind computers processing claims.

    The Chart that Could Undo the Healthcare System - Foundation for Economic Education

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    Quote Originally Posted by laminar-flow View Post
    Here is a chart that reflects what I have been seeing over the last 20 years in health care. At my clinic, I see about 5 docs, 10 "healthcare providers", and 20 people behind computers processing claims.

    The Chart that Could Undo the Healthcare System - Foundation for Economic Education
    That is outright disgusting and heartbreaking. Especially considering the wife just had some blood panle work rejected by insurance because they deemed it "investigative and explatory" < it is stuff for RA. Fucking cocksuckers!

    I think healthcare has gone the way of big business, need 5 administrators/managers for every employee. That is why I hated the one job soooo bad!! Bunch of asshole do nothings making tons of money contributing 1% to the overall... fuckers. Oh wait, they had a bidnes degree tho so it was ok. fuckers!

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    Yep, they have pretend docs preventing real docs from doing their job which we pay dearly for them to do.

    Look at my previous post #75

    Here is what I do. Start calling them continuously about getting the blood work done. After wading through the phone menu and when they finally put a human on the phone, start recording the conversation and tell them that you are recording the conversation. Explain that your doc requested a medical procedure. Ask them if they deny the lab work and because of that a medical treatment is delayed and your wife is harmed, who is responsible.

  22. #194
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    Also, in response to a previous post about how the US can not afford trillions for a single government pay health care system... The US government will not pay, the taxpayer pays. Yes, our taxes will increase but no one will have to pay premiums, co-pays, office visits, meds, nothing. And if your employer currently subsidizes your health care, they will no longer have to pay and your wages will increase. We will also not have to pay for all large number of people in management of healthcare, in the insurance industry and at the point of service level, and certainly not the aforementioned "doctors" who work for insurance companies. Just imaging what those insurance docs make and I bet they don't work a minute over 40 a week.

    Simple is always best and has lower cost.

    Also, healthcare will always get more expensive per person because medicine always advances and we can now cure more today than ever before. Also, notice that your healthcare insurance premiums always increase as you age.

    But we as a population could help by staying healthy with lifestyle choices. I do.

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    So, by the length of this thread, it's evident that everyone is in agreement about health insurance.

    And full disclosure, I didn't take the time this morning to read every post.

    But are there enough shops (small and large) on here to form a buying group for insurance, possibly thru PM? Seems group rates are always for groups larger than one's business, but if all (stateside) groups could band together, perhaps there's some savings there. Of course, an insurer licensed in every state would be required, but pretty sure they exist.

    Or, it's possible I'm just nuts. Could be the case...

  25. #196
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    I am not sure where people get this idea that there is some magical low cost "group rate". Every person requires different health care. What a big group does is allow you to lump the people who are healthy with the sick ones, so the average cost is lower. But that means you are using the principle of the dreaded "mandatory coverage".
    Which is what Obamacare does.
    I have been on Obamacare since it started- being self employed since 1978, no company has picked up any of my fare.
    Market rate right now, for me, under "group rate" of 200,000 people on WashingtonHealthPlanFinder, which is the name of my state Obamacare, is about $1200 a month for me.
    I get a subsidy, because I dont make a fortune- but I still pay $165 a month, plus co-pays and a several thousand dollar deductible. So that means, on socialized Obamacare, I end up paying around $3000 to $5000 a year, depending on if I need something like a CAT scan. Thats the going rate these days.

    That means, if you can put together a group of 200,000 people, you could negotiate down to that $1200 a month per person- for people like me, who are in their early 60s, with some pre-existing conditions, but no real medical issues.

    Health care is not cheap.

    If you are paying less than $500 a month, somebody else is helping you out, whether you know it or not- thats about what coverage for my 25 year old costs (which I pay) before Obamacare subsidy.

    Group rates for people in their 40s and 50s, per person, is gonna run around a grand a month in most parts of the USA.

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    FWIW - for me and The Mrs., we are somewhere south of a grand together.
    Possibly around 2/3 of a grand?
    We average almost 50 yrs old.
    That is an old Catastrophic policy that has been grandfathered in yet.

    So, we are not on Obama, and not paying $1000/m/each.
    No prescriptions, no visits.
    HSA on the side. (skin in the game)


    ----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Also, in response to a previous post about how the US can not afford trillions for a single government pay health care system... The US government will not pay, the taxpayer pays. Yes, our taxes will increase but no one will have to pay premiums, co-pays, office visits, meds, nothing. And if your employer currently subsidizes your health care, they will no longer have to pay and your wages will increase. We will also not have to pay for all large number of people in management of healthcare, in the insurance industry and at the point of service level, and certainly not the aforementioned "doctors" who work for insurance companies. Just imaging what those insurance docs make and I bet they don't work a minute over 40 a week.

    Simple is always best and has lower cost.

    Also, healthcare will always get more expensive per person because medicine always advances and we can now cure more today than ever before. Also, notice that your healthcare insurance premiums always increase as you age.

    But we as a population could help by staying healthy with lifestyle choices. I do.

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    The problem that you've got is that going to an efficient single payer system would mean job cuts for many well paid executives and lobbyists and more, far less well paid, clerical workers. Even without the restraints of a European socialist-worker type economy, that would take a very strong President and Congress to push through without being diluted beyond the point of usefulness like ACA/Obamacare was.

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  32. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    FWIW - for me and The Mrs., we are somewhere south of a grand together.
    Possibly around 2/3 of a grand?
    We average almost 50 yrs old.
    That is an old Catastrophic policy that has been grandfathered in yet.

    So, we are not on Obama, and not paying $1000/m/each.
    No prescriptions, no visits.
    HSA on the side. (skin in the game)


    ----------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    you are lucky- that you are so healthy, and also, by my standards, relatively young.
    I have had minor stuff for over 20 years- high cholesteral, sinus issues- that are not real medical problems, in the sense that I can function just fine- but require regular blood draws, medication, and, in general, a few grand a year, paid for by somebody, of health care. And in my mid 50s, had kidney stones that required an operation that was over 3 grand out of pocket. Well over ten grand retail.
    I think I am about average, health wise, for my age, healthier than many- but, every year, I pay thousands. I used to be on a drug that was 3 bucks a day. that adds up. All out of pocket.

    Anyway, my point is- most people do use a few grand a year of health care, and somebody is paying for it.
    In my case, I actually have paid most of it, as very few years, in the last 40, have I met my deductible, which means, even though I have insurance, I pay for all the actual care I get. At a discount, because the insurance Obamacare or private, negotiates cheaper deals, but still, I have always paid.

    And I know a bunch of people my age with new knees or hips, stents, breast cancer, throat cancer, and other totally treatable stuff where they are ten grand or more out of pocket for a year or two.

    Shit, as they say, happens. And it happens to people in the seemingly best of health , striking out of nowhere.
    Then, there are the kids, like my younger one, who broke his arm 4 times, his foot once, a couple of concussions- all snowboarding/basketball/skateboarding related. But that stuff costs money. I remember one broken arm, when I had full coverage private insurance, 3 grand out of pocket.

    All the private insurance I have had, and the Obamacare I have now, which is private insurance too, I just get a discount on the premium, has always required me to pay, out of pocket, both premiums AND the first few grand every year of costs. When I had blue cross, it was something like $3 grand per person, and $5 grand family total, deductible- that was when I had two kids in the house, and the four of us, in the late 90s early 2000s, were $600 or so a month, plus up to 5 grand out of pocket. Which meant a possible yearly expenditure of 12 grand, and that was 20 years ago.
    Many people I know on medicare or medicaid have to skip care, due to the fact that a lot of stuff isnt covered, or requires a deductible or copay. My wife, on "free" medicare, pays over 200 a month for it, with supplemental insurance. And we stlll get pretty decent sized bills in the mail...

    Aside from Congress, I dont think anybody on govt plans gets a total free ride. Maybe vets. But I think most of the vets I know still pay out of pocket for some things, either cause they want it faster or closer.


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