Thread: Learning to be a Machinist online?

I am very busy with my shop and dont have as much time as I would like train an apprentice that is working for me. I been looking into a way for him to learn things quicker with out me showing him and read about an online Machine Shop Course. Im not sure how good this online class could be so I thought I waould see if anybody else out there may have tried something like this, and had any advise.

This site is chock full of info. Not very organized in a tutorial kind of way though.

Your Apprentice he is not, if you dont have the time to train.

You might look into www.toolingu.com This website has alot of information for learning. Not sure how much it cost to subscribe but my last job we used it to learn and help sharp skills, especially in math.

I don't see how anyone could learn machining without any real hands on experience. I certainly wouldn't trust anybody claiming to have just graduated from an online machine class. I might hire them to sweep the floor & clean the crapper though.

Gordon is quite right "If you have no time to train him he ain't your apprentice". Take on a greenhorn and your committed to spending time to train him / her. Now it is your choice pay for classes or slow down a bit a teach while your working. Ever heard the saying "see one, do one, teach one" ? I'd rather spend the money by slowing a wee bit to train the lad. Example: say he has never tapped a hole before. Tell him the night before to read all he can on tapping, next day show him on one hole, let him do another while you watch, now set him free and go about your work. Will he break a tap ? Probably, but who has not, and how better to learn how to extract one, will he be slow yes at first, but at the end he will have made some mistakes, and hopfully learned from them. Your time invested will be minimal, and most of all it wil be a moral booster; hey the boss let me tap 40 holes by myself and I did it.
To put it another way they don't say to the future cardiac surgeon read the chapters on bypass techniques you will be doing one friday at 8 A.M.. Hands on! books are for after work to get the concepts, nomenclature and general idea of what is going on. It really depemds a lot on the character of your app. too, for this to work he has to be really motivated to learn. Don't be afraid to let him watch you do somthing either, I get a tremendous amount of info from just someone do a proceedure, it might appear that I am just standing there scratching my bollocks, but nothing could be farther from the truth, watching some one due a prceedure removes the pressure actually doing first time and allows concentration on exactly what is going on, even better if you narrate while he is watching. Bottom line is your going to spend money to train him, it is up to you to delagate where it is best spent. Hands on during the day books at night, don't yell, get agnry or give looks the more comfortable he is with you the better apperentice he will be. I've trained many people (in other fields) and found the above methods to work the best, bearing in mind you must tailor your training to the individual. Lastly remeber you know how do many things without really thinking, so slow it down and asume he knows nothing about what are showing him, and be prepared to explain it a couple different ways.

I see nothing wrong with having the guy learn theory and technics, first, and then introducing him to the practical aspects. He'll be much better than a trained monkey who cannot explain or understand why things are done in a certain way.

So books and videos as the first step in learning would be very beneficial, IMO. SmartFlix has quite a few good videos on machining. The best of them come in series that present a more traditional tutorial approach.

It goes without saying that you won't make him a professional machinist without actual hands on experience and mentorship. But those won't replace theory either. And as in any field, practice should come after theory is learned and not vice versa.

Originally Posted by TPMInc

I am very busy with my shop and dont have as much time as I would like train an apprentice that is working for me. I been looking into a way for him to learn things quicker with out me showing him and read about an online Machine Shop Course. Im not sure how good this online class could be so I thought I waould see if anybody else out there may have tried something like this, and had any advise.

Sadly the only way to really train him is to stand there and teach him.
You can point out all the great resources available on-line( including this forum * )
But at the end , he has to be able to stand in front of a 3 axis VMC with a bunch of cutters and toolholders and a fixture and put them all on the machine
in the correct place, with the right numbers loaded into the machine so that when the green button is pressed, a finished part pops out 5 mins later.

But if you think about losing a hour teaching him howto load up tool holders, then losing an hour teaching howto use the offline tool setter, how many hours
are you going to make up when you're in a hurry and say to him "Load these 10 tools into holders and measure them for me"

Boris

*hmmm maybe this forum needs a warning, "abandon hope all ye who enter" sounds good

What is sad is many community colleges did have classes and night classes.

Now many are long gone. Bean counters at the college said there was not enough jobs for machinist.

I think the bean counters are a pack of dipshits, everywhere you look a machinist had to do a job. from the door knob on your house to the key that starts your car. they dont think at all.

Originally Posted by oldbikerdude37

What is sad is many community colleges did have classes and night classes.

Now many are long gone. Bean counters at the college said there was not enough jobs for machinist.

I think the bean counters are a pack of dipshits, everywhere you look a machinist had to do a job. from the door knob on your house to the key that starts your car. they dont think at all.

Yea, but everyone was betting on it being a machinist in another country.

As previously alluded to a person can learn hands on 10x faster than reading books and watching videos. You also might not like other people's training methods. Where are you at in Virginia? I just moved here, I am 40 miles Northwest of Richmond.

Originally Posted by Boris

But at the end , he has to be able to stand in front of a 3 axis VMC with a bunch of cutters and toolholders and a fixture and put them all on the machine
in the correct place, with the right numbers loaded into the machine so that when the green button is pressed, a finished part pops out 5 mins later.

But if you think about losing a hour teaching him howto load up tool holders, then losing an hour teaching howto use the offline tool setter, how many hours
are you going to make up when you're in a hurry and say to him "Load these 10 tools into holders and measure them for me"

Boris

*hmmm maybe this forum needs a warning, "abandon hope all ye who enter" sounds good

Boris,

Sounds like you're training a CNC OPERATOR, not a machinist.


"when the green button is pressed, a finished part pops out 5 mins later"


My feeling is a machinist needs to at least be able

to grind a tool, to chase a thread,

or bore a hole to size, to figure his own procedure,

and tools, to rough, and finish the parts you hand him.

Kap

Originally Posted by kappullen

Boris,

Sounds like you're training a CNC OPERATOR, not a machinist.


"when the green button is pressed, a finished part pops out 5 mins later"


My feeling is a machinist needs to at least be able

to grind a tool, to chase a thread,

or bore a hole to size, to figure his own procedure,

and tools, to rough, and finish the parts you hand him.

Kap

I think you missed the bit where I said here's the tools, the fixture, now load it into the machine before getting a finished part.

But as a trainee CNC setter, the first job they all do for me after 3 months operating is this:

"There are 3 cutters machining the part, they are defined in terms of length and radius, if you make the radius smaller, the part gets smaller.
This part , however is 0.004" undersize, change tool 3 radius to bring it back on size"
After machining a part, they are then handed the micrometer and asked to measure the part.

That is where every trainee/apprentice I've taught starts (and some end there too )

When they've got the hang of changing the offsets, then its onto changing the tools, indicating vices, locating datums, reading the setup sheets komplete wiff spellink ewwors

Once they've got the hang of all that, do I start on programming, then tool selection, feeds, speeds, materials etc.

As for thread chasing...change the thread mill offset and re-run the cycle until the thread is the right size

I'm not training people to be a manual machinist in the traditions of us old timers who used to twirl handles all day and make it look easy
I'm training people in most aspects of 3 and 4 axis CNC work because thats where the money is
Plus who really wants to be stuck in front of a b/p clone being blasted by chips anymore?

Boris

As an apprentice myself i find being shown how to do something once and take notes on it helps and then im able to do it again from memory and my prompts in notes. Also if you dont have time to teach him say you have a rush job on let him watch what your doing and explain why you doing it you can do that whilst your still doing your job, thats how i started out just watching the machinist i work alongside set the machine and then work the machine. But dont let him watch for days on end because he will get bored no matter how keen he is on being a machinist.

As for online machine courses why not send him to college one day a week like most apprentices have had to, that will give you a day to be able to do your stuff and also give him the theory to go with the practical skills you will teach him.

If your short on time you might set him on a machine with a moderate runtime and have him play around between cycles. This is how I learned to program the lathe, getting work done and a little extra on the side.

Also, let him raid the machine manual cabinet. I took those things home and read em cover to cover. Of course now I can program any machine we've got around here, but that's about it. Knowing how to make the machine move without exploding is easy. The rest, not so much.

And I know it's a little unorthodox, but my boss lets me run my own stuff after hours or on the weekend if I'm not interfering with anything since he knows I won't wreck a machine (tooling, maybe!). I don't have to stress as much about making parts as fast as possible and have a little time to think and take different approaches. I get some sweet parts for myself, a little free training, and a few used endmills may perish.

Thanks to the guys who give the newbies a chance!

I have been to school, theroy out the whazzoo, print reading, GDT, trig, taught on manual machines. All great stuff I use it everyday. Plus I have my own shop at home lathe B.P. and lots a other goodies, but at work it is a different world time spent is now $$. What I am getting at is there is no sub for hands on. I consider myself very lucky to work with some folks that don't if I ask the same question a couple of times or need to be shown somthing again cause I misunderstood part of what was shown / said. But I think they realize that once I got it down I won't ever be a bother about it again and get faster at it the more I repeat the task. I just hope they realize how much this means to me and their business cause they are just making a good investment better by treating me and other employees in this manner.

So if your reading (and you know who you are) thanks.

I'm young, but I'm old school... I think the best way to develop the interest, and basic foundation for the machinist trade is to actually turn or mill the chip yourself on manual machines. This is where state funded vocational programs are important. It's a shame that these programs are being shut down. I would never have pursued this trade had I not had the chance to build things off of blue prints in my high school vocational program. The year I graduated, it was closed down. The folks I see wanting to be machinists... Ugh, worthless mouth breathers that can barely be counted on to show up the next day.

Online programs give you some theory. I can just copy and paste the text from the class and use it for the test. If I get 100%, does that automatically make me a machinist? No, because that's not what ever made a machinist. A machinist was one who invested time, sweat, emotional trial and possibly blood to accept this profession as their own. It takes a lot of brains, but also a lot of heart to truly become a machinist. A stupid online class does nothing gauge ones potential for success. Maybe for a button pushing operator, but not for a machinist. These days, for the payout that might be available, there is going to be a severe shortage of real, 100% machinists.