Letting a guy go. Did I handle it right? - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by gear cutter View Post
    He has/had healthcare and a physician. He just didn't seem to want to do anything about the situation. So I stopped trying to help. I also didn't really know what my limitations are legally.
    If he didn't want to do anything himself then I think most of us would have done what you did. Some probably would have been less polite than you were

    The following isn't your problem but family or relatives might have intervened long before you hired him. His not "wanting to do anything himself" might be because he feels no need to do anything. Who know, maybe you gave him a wake-up call?

    In 2 weeks it'll be 31 years since I stopped smoking. Those that have been there know how hard that is I always told myself I enjoyed smoking and believed it too

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  3. #42
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    Letting people go sucks 99% of the time.

    Worst part of the job.


    But if you allow someone to push out bad work you are asking your customer to do the same thing to you. You are putting them in a bad position of having to fire you and your entire staff...do that enough and you will have to let your entire staff go.
    So let one go now before it gets worse.


    Yes, have "the talk". That is the "is something wrong, have an issue, what can we do to help you get your work done as it needs to be done before we have to let you go" talk.


    After that what happens is on them, it is there decision.





    As to handicap, ADHD or whatever...that is their problem not mine. I will try to help, but in the end they are either capable or not capable of doing the job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIM View Post
    Letting people go sucks 99% of the time.

    Worst part of the job.


    But if you allow someone to push out bad work you are asking your customer to do the same thing to you. You are putting them in a bad position of having to fire you and your entire staff...do that enough and you will have to let your entire staff go.
    So let one go now before it gets worse.


    Yes, have "the talk". That is the "is something wrong, have an issue, what can we do to help you get your work done as it needs to be done before we have to let you go" talk.


    After that what happens is on them, it is there decision.





    As to handicap, ADHD or whatever...that is their problem not mine. I will try to help, but in the end they are either capable or not capable of doing the job.
    I am working on a written set of instructions for the different repeat work, with color pictures and checklists for the employees. I am also going to make a checklist for myself to track what I say to who and how many times I say it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gear cutter View Post
    I am working on a written set of instructions for the different repeat work, with color pictures and checklists for the employees. I am also going to make a checklist for myself to track what I say to who and how many times I say it.
    A written set of instructions is a good starting point. Also, there should be a probationary period, say 90 days, during which the capabilities and progress of a new employee may be evaluated.

    You waited 8 months to terminate this employee and that's more than sufficient to evaluate a person's performance.

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  7. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by gear cutter View Post
    I am working on a written set of instructions for the different repeat work, with color pictures and checklists for the employees. I am also going to make a checklist for myself to track what I say to who and how many times I say it.
    Wonder if it would have helped to have the employee document those things himself? Maybe you could have also had him create checklists.

    I took careful notes early in my career. Especially when being taught on the job by demanding ball busters - doubly so when it was something that I would own. I saw my boss using lots of 3x5 card reminders, so if I forgot a piece of info I was told, I figured I'd damn well better have it written down. Bonus, instead of saying "I forgot what you told me" I could say "I thought I had that in my notes but I'm not sure I have it right."

    As I gained experience, I didn't need to write much stuff down. But perception is critical. So to appear organized, and document events and statements, I found it helped to have a written record. Also avoids pissing contests.

    As years went on, writing stuff down helped me remember, even if I seldom had to refer to it. Now I'm more likely to refer to it. Ahem. I prefer binder notebooks, so I can go back and purge junk. Some environments prefer lab notebooks, so pages cannot be removed or replaced.

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  9. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by gear cutter View Post
    I am working on a written set of instructions for the different repeat work, with color pictures and checklists for the employees. I am also going to make a checklist for myself to track what I say to who and how many times I say it.

    Give it a try, I hope it works for you. If it does, please let me know.



    I have tried a whole host of spoken, written, picture explanations and descriptions. I have left samples of what finished product needs to look like. I have had inspections...let me see, or let XYZ see the first piece from each box. I have written up more stuff to try and explain the simplest of things.
    For awhile I thought it was me...I could not get simplest jobs performed.

    Then one weekend my 10 year old daughter came in to work with me. She wanted an Ipod gadgety thing, she was told if she wants it, she can buy it with her money, but only money she worked for.
    It was her and me on a Saturday morning, I built up a little platform for her to stand on so she cold load machine and check parts. Made sure all safety's were on and working, her safety glasses then let her at it. After 30 minutes she asked if she could do something else as she was getting board...
    I am thinking this is going to be a long day, I tell her thats the job I need she can't hop around as shes board...and she says, no dad I have time in between parts and want to do something else in between. So figured what other job she could run...she was loading and running two machines, checking the parts AND deburring. No extra instruction needed, no you missed this bur or that was out of spec...she checked, found when machine strayed a bit fro the mean, told me before it was out.
    She worked Saturday and Sunday doing a great job. Outproduced the the guys I had with no incident...made me realize it is not me, it is not my process, it is not the directives, it is not that the job is hard or difficult. Monday I gave my last talk, Tuesday we had one less person working for me.

    No burs means no burs...it is pretty simple and does not require a write up, pictures or a set of samples. Checking parts with a Go/No Go gage is not a tough task. No need to write up how and why in detail...someone either takes the job seriously and checks...or they do not and need to be asked to leave.

    I say this now...but have a gent that at times decides not to check his work. I know I am not going to change his attitude and also know his talent lies elsewhere so I kinda put up with it for now...not good, but tough to replace so I work with it and make sure I CHECK for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIM View Post
    Give it a try, I hope it works for you. If it does, please let me know.



    I have tried a whole host of spoken, written, picture explanations and descriptions. I have left samples of what finished product needs to look like. I have had inspections...let me see, or let XYZ see the first piece from each box. I have written up more stuff to try and explain the simplest of things.
    For awhile I thought it was me...I could not get simplest jobs performed.

    Then one weekend my 10 year old daughter came in to work with me. She wanted an Ipod gadgety thing, she was told if she wants it, she can buy it with her money, but only money she worked for.
    It was her and me on a Saturday morning, I built up a little platform for her to stand on so she cold load machine and check parts. Made sure all safety's were on and working, her safety glasses then let her at it. After 30 minutes she asked if she could do something else as she was getting board...
    I am thinking this is going to be a long day, I tell her thats the job I need she can't hop around as shes board...and she says, no dad I have time in between parts and want to do something else in between. So figured what other job she could run...she was loading and running two machines, checking the parts AND deburring. No extra instruction needed, no you missed this bur or that was out of spec...she checked, found when machine strayed a bit fro the mean, told me before it was out.
    She worked Saturday and Sunday doing a great job. Outproduced the the guys I had with no incident...made me realize it is not me, it is not my process, it is not the directives, it is not that the job is hard or difficult. Monday I gave my last talk, Tuesday we had one less person working for me.

    No burs means no burs...it is pretty simple and does not require a write up, pictures or a set of samples. Checking parts with a Go/No Go gage is not a tough task. No need to write up how and why in detail...someone either takes the job seriously and checks...or they do not and need to be asked to leave.

    I say this now...but have a gent that at times decides not to check his work. I know I am not going to change his attitude and also know his talent lies elsewhere so I kinda put up with it for now...not good, but tough to replace so I work with it and make sure I CHECK for him.
    After reading this I am wondering. Is it possible to remove burrs from gears with a tumbler? 8 DP & 6 DP. 18 & 30 tooth. Maybe I can do more by myself this way or make it so it's easier for someone else. I have not had much experience with tumblers I have only seen them never operated one. I would have to learn before I taught someone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gear cutter View Post
    After reading this I am wondering. Is it possible to remove burrs from gears with a tumbler? 8 DP & 6 DP. 18 & 30 tooth. Maybe I can do more by myself this way or make it so it's easier for someone else. I have not had much experience with tumblers I have only seen them never operated one. I would have to learn before I taught someone else.
    I've seen many sizes of tumblers that remove all types of burs. Basically it's a question of what is used in the tumbler to do what is required and the tumbler "motion".

    Deburring Processes - YouTube

    deburring tumblers - YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIM View Post
    Then one weekend my 10 year old daughter came in to work with me. She wanted an Ipod gadgety thing, she was told if she wants it, she can buy it with her money, but only money she worked for.
    It was her and me on a Saturday morning, I built up a little platform for her to stand on so she cold load machine and check parts. Made sure all safety's were on and working, her safety glasses then let her at it. After 30 minutes she asked if she could do something else as she was getting board...
    I am thinking this is going to be a long day, I tell her thats the job I need she can't hop around as shes board...and she says, no dad I have time in between parts and want to do something else in between. So figured what other job she could run...she was loading and running two machines, checking the parts AND deburring. No extra instruction needed, no you missed this bur or that was out of spec...she checked, found when machine strayed a bit fro the mean, told me before it was out.
    She worked Saturday and Sunday doing a great job. Outproduced the the guys I had with no incident...made me realize it is not me, it is not my process, it is not the directives, it is not that the job is hard or difficult. Monday I gave my last talk, Tuesday we had one less person working for me.
    Sounds to me like she earned more than the "Ipod gadgety thing". She might be running your place sooner than you realize

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Sounds to me like she earned more than the "Ipod gadgety thing". She might be running your place sooner than you realize
    Yes she did. She earned the same wage the gents made per hour and soon enough had the money saved.

    I never ruled her taking over out and she has come in multiple times to help out or earn some extra money...in addition to the jobs she already has. She works hard, does well, but it is not something she particularly enjoys so I do not see this as a career choice for her.

    Too bad...

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    I skipped all but the first page because I hate whiners. Let's take a trip back in time, shall we?

    During all major wars, we turned out product, correct? Was there such a thing as adhd, or add, or any of these bullshit alphabet soup diagnoses'?

    Get the fuck over yourselves. I function fine, albeit having been clinically diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, add, adhd, and many std's.
    Go get a fucking hug, have your kool-aid, and get to fucking work.
    You DO know that more than half of said diagnoses' are pure bullshit, right? If you know what keeps you moving, well, fucking do it. Wow.
    Some people's children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsrider845 View Post
    I skipped all but the first page because I hate whiners. Let's take a trip back in time, shall we?

    During all major wars, we turned out product, correct? Was there such a thing as adhd, or add, or any of these bullshit alphabet soup diagnoses'?

    Get the fuck over yourselves. I function fine, albeit having been clinically diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, add, adhd, and many std's.
    Go get a fucking hug, have your kool-aid, and get to fucking work.
    You DO know that more than half of said diagnoses' are pure bullshit, right? If you know what keeps you moving, well, fucking do it. Wow.
    Some people's children.
    With all that testing, did they test for the Dunning - Kruger effect?

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    When you get somebody like this that is slipshod, it means they are thinking about something other than their work. Their guitar band, their hot rod, their video game strategies, their plans with the girl tonight, their dreams of megalomania, whatever. Whatever they are thinking about, it is not your job.

    When an employee has their sights set on something else, they eventually leave anyway and do a bad job on their way out. By firing them, you are just short circuiting the process.

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    Simple solution......put the workers in small groups,say five.....no leading hand ,no foreman.....Pay a weekly bonus on group performance,....one guys screws up,no bonus for anyone.....every thing on the team output........the guy will quickly get straight,..or......It also helps to get three written warning letters signed at engagement,as well as a resignation letter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    With all that testing, did they test for the Dunning - Kruger effect?
    Did I ever say that I'm superior or any of the other bullshit associated with said issue? Those "tests" were administered in middle school, because I don't play well with others. I'm sick of people making excuses for themselves and others because they're too lazy to help themselves.

    And if an employee can not perform his given tasks that make up his job, then yeah, fire them. Fuck discrimination, he can just go get a government job, like all the other incompetent dysfunctional morons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Simple solution......put the workers in small groups,say five.....no leading hand ,no foreman.....Pay a weekly bonus on group performance,....one guys screws up,no bonus for anyone.....every thing on the team output........the guy will quickly get straight,..or......It also helps to get three written warning letters signed at engagement,as well as a resignation letter.
    Do you know of any place where that gets done? When all are responsible nobody is responsible. With any group one person will always be "the weak link".

    I've noticed that in groups of either men or women the women are worst to each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Simple solution......put the workers in small groups,say five.....no leading hand ,no foreman.....Pay a weekly bonus on group performance,....one guys screws up,no bonus for anyone.....every thing on the team output........the guy will quickly get straight,..or......It also helps to get three written warning letters signed at engagement,as well as a resignation letter.
    I don't really have enough people for this approach. Before I moved my shop I had better luck with women doing this particular part of the work. I can't seem to find gals that want to do this kind of work any more. When I was younger everywhere I worked the deburr or parts clean up was almost always done by women and they where very good at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gear cutter View Post
    I don't really have enough people for this approach. Before I moved my shop I had better luck with women doing this particular part of the work. I can't seem to find gals that want to do this kind of work any more. When I was younger everywhere I worked the deburr or parts clean up was almost always done by women and they where very good at it.
    Here (Denmark) where as good as all women work as well as men some jobs are regarded more as "female" and others "male". That is slowly changing but I hope it never becomes 50 50.

    I noticed year ago when I was about to board a plane that the pilot was female. It seemed to worry some but my thinking was that to get the job she'd have had to be much better than a male.

    In another place the female welders were much better than the males and it was small parts that had to be right.

    I think you only have to look at a group of elderly women knitting and talking to know where the myth of multi tasking came from

    Women in Denmark - Wikipedia

    Me and women? I like them so much I married one.

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    I set the teams up with industrial painters.....the company was bleeding white with multiple reworks from third party inspector rejects.....if the work isnt a goer the first time,its effectively more than double cost per item.....When I retired,the owners stopped the scheme,to maximize profit,because they couldnt see that standards would fall again...They now rent out the yard and sheds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Do you know of any place where that gets done? When all are responsible nobody is responsible. With any group one person will always be "the weak link".

    I've noticed that in groups of either men or women the women are worst to each other.


    I used to work in a restaurant where all the waiter staff Pooled their tips. In this place you either earned your keep and worked together as a team OR the wait staff stabbed you in the back at every opportunity and would be out the door so quick it wasn't funny.
    This only worked because of a few people that really hustled and kept up the momentum.


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