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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Some people are pure poison in the work place.
    The worse are not picking fights but are the off kilter bullies who use every means possible to put down others.
    These are often folks in some lower level of management who for some reason can't look at others with a fair eye but as a threat to their own standing.

    Their crap is often not seen by those above their station as they don't punch up only down.
    One of the biggest problems of this type is they are compulsive story tellers about others.
    They gossip about others weaknesses that even those who are not so out of kilter believe and unwittingly align with the bully.

    Lots of ways for the work place to go wrong- a decent person in management needs a sharp eye to get the root of problems and clear out the folks behind it.
    This is absolutely true. One of the best machinists I ever knew did this kind of thing all the time. He would get hired into a company, everybody would think "what a great guy, excellent machinist," etc. Then he would start burrowing into everybody with shitty comments and earworms - sometimes directly to people he thought was doing something stupid or not the way he thought it should be done, sometimes to other workers and not that person. He would spread rumors and say things like "this guy gets to do that but you don't, does that seem fair to you?" "The boss bitches you out all the time, but never says a word to that guy," "Look how that idiot is doing that job," etc. Eventually every place he worked the guys hated his guts. Brought a real pallor over the places he worked at in the workers. They would finally get word to management and he'd get fired. Repeatedly.

    When I worked with him he never complained about my work but I was a target with my back issues all the time, but so was pretty much every other person in the shop besides the owner, and it was a small place. Since I was about a step off being disabled, the shop owner let me come in late, leave early, miss days when I was hurtiing like hell. This ass started keeping a calendar with the time I came in, how many hours I worked, days I missed, etc. I had words with the guy several times and asked the owner of the place to take care of it but he basically slapped the guy on the wrist. This happened more than once... Finally I got fed up and told him either handle it for real or I am gonna clobber this asshole with a wrench. Your choice. After talking to the other employees etc. this guy finally got fired again, for the last time.

    Moral of the story, everybody got along fine without this one guy. As soon as he showed up on the scene it was like a whole shop turned into a depressing place for everybody. And in every place that he worked, not just one - I knew several guys in places he worked and heard directly from them. Somehow he seemed to thrive in that kind of environment but it killed everybody else in terms of attitude and productivity and wanting to be there etc. You've gotta root these kinds of problem people out and get rid of them if you want a healthy shop environment even if it hurts a little short-term. If you want a happy productive shop, TRBoatworks is dead on, these guys are seriously poison.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKretz View Post
    This is absolutely true. One of the best machinists I ever knew did this kind of thing all the time. He would get hired into a company, everybody would think "what a great guy, excellent machinist," etc. Then he would start burrowing into everybody with shitty comments and earworms - sometimes directly to people he thought was doing something stupid or not the way he thought it should be done, sometimes to other workers and not that person. He would spread rumors and say things like "this guy gets to do that but you don't, does that seem fair to you?" "The boss bitches you out all the time, but never says a word to that guy," "Look how that idiot is doing that job," etc. Eventually every place he worked the guys hated his guts. Brought a real pallor over the places he worked at in the workers. They would finally get word to management and he'd get fired. Repeatedly.

    When I worked with him he never complained about my work but I was a target with my back issues all the time, but so was pretty much every other person in the shop besides the owner, and it was a small place.
    Since I was about a step off being disabled, the shop owner let me come in late, leave early, miss days when I was hurtiing like hell. This ass started keeping a calendar with the time I came in, how many hours I worked, days I missed, etc. I had words with the guy several times and asked the owner of the place to take care of it but he basically slapped the guy on the wrist. This happened more than once... Finally I got fed up and told him either handle it for real or I am gonna clobber this asshole with a wrench. Your choice. After talking to the other employees etc. this guy finally got fired again, for the last time.

    Moral of the story, everybody got along fine without this one guy. As soon as he showed up on the scene it was like a whole shop turned into a depressing place for everybody. And in every place that he worked, not just one - I knew several guys in places he worked and heard directly from them. Somehow he seemed to thrive in that kind of environment but it killed everybody else in terms of attitude and productivity and wanting to be there etc. You've gotta root these kinds of problem people out and get rid of them if you want a healthy shop environment even if it hurts a little short-term. If you want a happy productive shop, TRBoatworks is dead on, these guys are seriously poison.

    OK, so how does one handle that situation?

    You git special treatment but you don't have any docs stating that you are more special than the rest?
    How doo you tell Bill that he has to be here on time, every day, or else, when you have an exception standing right over there?

    I understand what you are saying, but how as a manager doo you expect him to deal with it?


    Firing this person, on what grounds?
    Is being a workplace cancer an acceptable reason?


    ---------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    OK, so how does one handle that situation?

    You git special treatment but you don't have any docs stating that you are more special than the rest?
    How doo you tell Bill that he has to be here on time, every day, or else, when you have an exception standing right over there?

    I understand what you are saying, but how as a manager doo you expect him to deal with it?


    Firing this person, on what grounds?
    Is being a workplace cancer an acceptable reason?


    ---------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Sure it's an acceptable reason, it amounts to harassment. He had multiple warnings and plenty of chances to course correct in every shop and didn't.

    I had plenty of documents, doctors notes, etc. And look at it in reverse... Is it better to try to be working at least and paying some taxes or to be sitting at home trying to collect the dole they give you on disability? Medical issues are no joke, and back is about the worst. Showing a little consideration and compassion for others never hurt anybody. Too many people are always "what about me" these days as it is. My situation didn't affect anyone else in the slightest other than the owner of the place.

    And is it fair that I had to feel like I was being tortured every minute that I was on my feet? (Still this way, even worse these days). But I still tried. Looking at things the way you just did makes somebody like me just say fuck it, why bother. Might as well just eat a bullet with that attitude.

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  6. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    How many good employees have you had after spending 18 months on the couch playing online games and on the dole?


    ----------------

    Think Snow Eh! Ox
    We dont really have "the dole" in my state- Unemployment clocks out at 26 weeks here- but I have had a couple of vets who got paid to go to school, and get their 2 year AA degrees in welding, courtesy of yer tax dollars. Thats more like 24 months. And, sure, they play games after school.

    I have had a couple 3 commercial fishermen, who work 2 or 3 months a year in Alaska, make just about enough money to live on, and then go on unemployment until it runs out every year- all perfectly legal, they pay lots of taxes. You can make 40 grand in the summer, if you are on a small boat, get a share of profits, and its a good salmon run.
    Then, they may weld for me in the winter.

    Although I was born pretty close to the middle of the last century, I tend to hire young guys. And they all played video games for measurable parts of their lives. Not uncommon to have some that logged far more than 18 months.
    Thats just kids, going back to maybe 1995.


    Does that count?

  7. #65
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    Not exactly what I meant....


    -----------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Last place I worked was 70% Hispanic, 69 Mexicans and 1 Colombian. The Colombian was the floor sweeper and a nice guy, everybody got along with him, except the Mexican who ran the saw. He'd insult the Colombian, push him around a little bit, pushed in front of him at the lunch truck, high school stuff. The Mexican saw guy was not well liked, partly because of the way he treated the Colombian, and partly for generally being an ass.

    So one Monday morning I come in, one of the guys in the office says "take a walk thru the shop" So I did, walking past the saw, the saw operator had a couple of black eyes, some decent bruising on his face and hands.

    Turns out they all went to a bar Friday night, one of the saw guy's co-workers said "go talk to the guy over there he hates Colombians as well" So he did, except the guy was Colombian, the saw guy after the first punch realised he'd been setup. He didn't ever say a word to the Colombian floor sweeper ever again, didn't push his way into the lunch truck queau ever again, didn't mouth of to anybody ever again. He learnt his lesson.

  9. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    OK, so how does one handle that situation?...
    Ox
    Ah the joy or challenge. One hates as comes up but loves it if you can solve it and you feel bad when you can't.
    Bo9b

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  11. #68
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    When I think back I was a bit of as meanie at times .....i was the only one could weld properly ,and one of the labourers told the manager he could weld better than me ,and he should be doing it all.....anyhoo ,big demonstration was set up with Col as judge .....the gas ,torch steel etc all set up for the demo,I did a quick go to show it was all working......then the guy puts the hood on,starts to weld ....the wire straight away burns back into the torch and wrecks the nozzle......Jimmy wants another go,Col says naaa, thats it ,everyone goes off .....Foreman says "I seen you turn the gas off ,you rat".....I says "leave nothin to chance"...and we both had a laugh.....later the same guy backed his pickup into Cols new BMW735I and got fired. Same guy used to swap the ignition leads on the forks ,then tell everyone I couldnt fix nothin.


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