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  1. #21
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    400k in sales. that is 80k per machinist for 5. each machinist needs to pull 2k a week. does the usa really have no taxes? without equipment i would be hard pressed to make enough money for a hot dog a day.

    now 2 machinist doing 400k that is 5k a week for each again with no equipment that is a stretch.

    I do not know if you have quoted work before fella but jobs live and die based on capabilities. Repairing bullshit can be lucrative but you normally need full fab shop to be able to build up shafts and remachine with large lathe and boring mill. People only rebuild shit that is way to expensive to buy new.

    You sir are trying to get into a sand box, you have no idea what is clay or cat turds but keep thinking you can make sculptures and sell them as fine art. If you have 500k, leave it in the bank, go and lease a cnc mill and lathe. Get a guy, rent a industrial space and start pounding doors trying to make sales.

    The reason the sales are there is because of joe owner not because of jimmy on the floor but joe owner does absolutely need jimmy on the floor or joey boy is up a creek.

    Buy a Subway sandwich shop, you can not possibly manage a machine shop based on people skills alone.

    The mind boggles and I apologize for the rant. I started off trying to figure it out, but that customer base is going to dissolve faster college party that the keg ran out on.

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  3. #22
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    You guys make it so difficult.

    The OP asked if anyone had or knew of a shop for sale, no specific terms. Shops come up all the time , as mentioned, owner retires (or dies) etc.

    You press for "details", and the OP throws out some tidbits. You jump all over the guy for being out of touch. But in fact, deals are struck every day.

    I second the idea! If you don't have a shop for sale, or know of one. STFU!

    If you know of a shop for sale, advise the OP, let him work out the details.

    Hey! This isn't hard.

  4. #23
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    Finally someone got my point.
    I just tried to explain, that the price of the shop is not determined by number of machinist.
    It is complex. There are many factors: machinery estimate, revenue generated, employees, customer base and so on.
    After all, I can see that a lot of people are not here to learn something, but criticize others and feel good about it.

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  6. #24
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    don't know one for sale in NJ. But I do know a friend who has a 2 person shop in Bradenton FL that was selling 18 months ago. If you want to consider a move to FL or satellite shop in that area he has a nice set up and exisiting customer base. Most of it is manual work, but he does have an older CNC mill and an older Hardinge cnc lathe.

    Agree that others aren't helping on the original posting. I don't see anything wrong with a 500K budget to buy an existing business, they are sold all the time in that price range.

  7. #25
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    vlad - I think your request is entirely reasonable - don't take the remarks too seriously. If someone has some valuable info then fine - if not - don't worry about it and let it go.

    It drives me crazy too when I post a question and get responses that have nothing to do with my question - and I know I am not alone on this. I think many of the forum members are retired guys with nothing better to do than to stick their noses into their neighbor's business because they are bored. Answering them back only encourages them.

    My advice - ignore the ones that have nothing to do with your post and your life will be much happier.

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  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerglider View Post
    don't know one for sale in NJ. But I do know a friend who has a 2 person shop in Bradenton FL that was selling 18 months ago. If you want to consider a move to FL or satellite shop in that area he has a nice set up and exisiting customer base. Most of it is manual work, but he does have an older CNC mill and an older Hardinge cnc lathe.

    Agree that others aren't helping on the original posting. I don't see anything wrong with a 500K budget to buy an existing business, they are sold all the time in that price range.
    Sorry, all my friends and family are in Jersey. I don't want to relocate, but thank you for letting me know.

  10. #27
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    If you have 500k to spend you might be better starting your own. One can't buy a customer base in this trade easily... people tend to hire the man more than the shop, and each shop has one man that really made it all happen.

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Miranda View Post
    vlad - I think your request is entirely reasonable - don't take the remarks too seriously. If someone has some valuable info then fine - if not - don't worry about it and let it go.

    It drives me crazy too when I post a question and get responses that have nothing to do with my question - and I know I am not alone on this. I think many of the forum members are retired guys with nothing better to do than to stick their noses into their neighbor's business because they are bored. Answering them back only encourages them.

    My advice - ignore the ones that have nothing to do with your post and your life will be much happier.

    Good advice for posting in any public forum. There's a large range of posters from blowhards to knowledgeable and helpful and quite a few hybrids that occupy both spaces. I'm completely guilty of posting sarcastic responses on occasion, despite being raised by two thoughtful, respectful parents.

    If you don't answer the door...when the group of bible thumpers dressed in Sunday's finest holding pamphlets detailing the worlds sins and how following Christ is your only route to salvation...they'll carrying on to the next house.

    ~Good luck in your venture~

  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by WILLEO6709 View Post
    If you have 500k to spend you might be better starting your own. One can't buy a customer base in this trade easily... people tend to hire the man more than the shop, and each shop has one man that really made it all happen.
    I agree with this, and is why I asked why Vlad wants to buy a machine shop. As a machine shop owner, I can't imagine setting out to actually buy one on purpose.

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    I agree with this, and is why I asked why Vlad wants to buy a machine shop. As a machine shop owner, I can't imagine setting out to actually buy one on purpose.
    I can tell you why Matt. Because he thinks he is ahead of the game. He thinks he has a product to sell, but not at the price he wants to line his pockets. He thinks in the long run he can buy a shop as a wise investment that has a base to pay the bills till his shit takes off. Or he is asking on behalf of a company that wants one shop for this product and one shop for the other and so on....a friend of mine could tell you about the joke that was. Owners were going to retire, sold shop to a corporate to do just that. They moved location...and well...layoffs and shop is almost gone under in 2yrs. But boy those white collars sure know how to run a shop!

  14. #31
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    Your business plan is probably right out of Donald Trumps notebook.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PegroProX440 View Post
    Your business plan is probably right out of Donald Trumps notebook.

    Well, it worked for Trump.
    Like him or not, the guys a billionaire!
    How much are you worth?

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  17. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by davehud View Post
    Well, it worked for Trump.
    Like him or not, the guys a billionaire!
    How much are you worth?
    Anyone can be a billionaire when your dad leaves you $40 million. 40 years at 2% interest gets you pretty close without lifting a finger.

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  19. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    Anyone can be a billionaire when your dad leaves you $40 million. 40 years at 2% interest gets you pretty close without lifting a finger.
    Madoff was supposedly a billionaire once also...

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  21. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad Harut View Post
    I dont know if you have ever purchased a business before or sold one, but that is how businesses are sold or merged.
    .
    Have you? I have, over and over - bought sold valued and structured as principal and profession advisory and there seems a lot messed up with this that some of the guys were getting at. Anyway, you're not asking for help on that.

    Basically, what you need to do is create a deal flow - get a few opportunities flowing your way. The last thing you want to do, and it is easy to do because deal flow is hard to establish, is get a look at just one and convince itself its perfect. You can get a lot of leads from kijiji (craigslist). Also call and network with accountants, that's often the first party an owner will talk to. Get on a few business brokers lists - they're close to useless but they do come up with stuff for sale. Finally get out and pound the pavement, go see enough shops and you find guys thinking about selling.

    Buying a small business is difficult. Bigger are easier if you can handle the zeros....small a difficult because its very emotive for the owner and they have no commercial experience with that sort of the thing. Part of their brain thinks they want to sell....but after you've done months of work on the deal the subconscious starts screaming, "Its your identity you're selling, don't do it". Unless its there is a real medical reason, small business purchase can be very difficult

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    I just closed on June 16th with the new owners of my shop. 1.1 million with 14 employees with all the standard benefits and 1.6 million in sales. I was asking 1.5 million. I didn't own the building. We negotiated for over 3 weeks. I just want to point out to some of the smaller shop owners that your used equipment is probably not worth what you think it is. Our major pieces of equipment are 5 small Minster presses,2 wire machines,2 CNC mills, 1 cnc jig grinder and several manual tool room machines and grinders including a large Mattison and a small Blanchard. The new owners negotiated employee contracts with the key employees. 500,000 should get you what the OP is asking for and more. There are soooo many things that comprise the value of a company. Just .02

  23. #37
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    Haven't read the whole discussion, but seems to me the OP's attitude and post is just fine.

    Machine shop owners get old, want to retire, hope to get something for the (in this case, small) business they've built. The OP is just letting us know he's a potential buyer, in what is likely the best possible forum to post his intent.

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  25. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    You guys make it so difficult.

    The OP asked if anyone had or knew of a shop for sale, no specific terms. Shops come up all the time , as mentioned, owner retires (or dies) etc.

    You press for "details", and the OP throws out some tidbits. You jump all over the guy for being out of touch. But in fact, deals are struck every day.

    I second the idea! If you don't have a shop for sale, or know of one. STFU!

    If you know of a shop for sale, advise the OP, let him work out the details.

    Hey! This isn't hard.
    Making life difficult is about par for the course for some.

    Whether the OP gets lucky or not I don't know but let him at least try. The world won't stop turning if things don't work out.

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  27. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCE View Post
    I just closed on June 16th with the new owners of my shop. 1.1 million with 14 employees with all the standard benefits and 1.6 million in sales. I was asking 1.5 million. I didn't own the building. We negotiated for over 3 weeks. I just want to point out to some of the smaller shop owners that your used equipment is probably not worth what you think it is. Our major pieces of equipment are 5 small Minster presses,2 wire machines,2 CNC mills, 1 cnc jig grinder and several manual tool room machines and grinders including a large Mattison and a small Blanchard. The new owners negotiated employee contracts with the key employees. 500,000 should get you what the OP is asking for and more. There are soooo many things that comprise the value of a company. Just .02
    Hopefully retirement is in your future....or a fun new chapter. Cheers!

  28. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCE View Post
    There are soooo many things that comprise the value of a company.

    yup. this is why only the inexperienced would suggest its simple

    congrats btw. Curious - cash deal? how did you handle working capital? If you feel like it, i bet many would be interested in the transition plan....after all, with these small businesses, earnings are often really tied to the principals relationships, so addressing this is (should be) an important issue for buyers


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