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Looking for ideas on hiring apprentices

CPM2014

Cast Iron
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Location
Austin,TX
I’m wanting to hire a couple guys as apprentices. We have a lack of machinists in the Austin area and the ones that are here are terribly under-skilled. I think if I can find guys with a mechanical aptitude and and eagerness to listen and learn, we might have a chance for success.

My question is, how can you test them, or what questions might you ask to find out if they are a suitable candidate? I think mechanical hobbies are a good indicator but what else? Are there simple aptitude tests that I could give? Have any of you guys gone through this?

Any help would be great!!
-Chris
 
I suggest a Yahtzee shaker, Ouija board or possibly my favorite the Magic 8 Ball... I have only once in my life filled out an actual job application, every other job I have had in my entire life came on the recommendation to the owner/hiring manager from a personal contact.

Ask around...
 
We hired an apprentice straight out of our local high school tech. He's been working out good so far. I talked to the instructor to see who he recommended. I gave him some basic tests to pass prior to hiring him. He was obviously eager to learn.
 
I used to give a math test that got progressively harder. I allowed the applicants to use calculators. Even if you can function as a machinist without a calculator in your head you need to know how to set-up the problem to solve it correctly. I gave the test to co-workers at various skill levels and development to gauge what the scores could mean. Math and machining go hand and hand. The test started converting simple fractions to decimals, you would be shocked that supposed High School graduates at the time (Early 90's) got those wrong.
 
May not work for all, but I don't bother testing people without established skills. I hire based on outside interests and character. Finding out a guy likes to work on cars and has high integrity is all I need to know. I figure if they have some mechanical aptitude I can train the rest.

For example, I have a guy that has been here for about 2 years. Came in with no experience. He can run every mill in the shop, and I trust him with most of our parts. He started in deburring. I have a half dozen guys in the shop that have similar stories.
 
My first question as an applicant would be, are you a state certified program?

(TX may be different than OH. In Ohio you don't just "hire" an apprentice.)

Do you offer full tuition compensation for the state required classes?

Those two factors may not seem like good indicators to you, but if a prospective apprentice asked me those questions, I would know his intentions are he wants to learn from a good institution, one that at least meets the state minimum criteria, and that they want to learn.

All of my friends who are machinists are passionate about machining. They enjoy learning new skills, even if just for the sake of doing it. Most work 8, 10, 12, hrs a day machining, and go home and machine for a few more hours. When I was an apprentice 18-20 hour days were regular. If I was working 12's at work, plus 2 or more hrs of class every day, plus a couple hours machining at home.

Finding kids who are passionate, about anything, is a good start. Mechanical aptitude is a plus, if your building tooling, but not necessarily for machining. If you asked my brother if I was mechanically inclined, he would just laugh at you. I have a cousin who is VERY mechanically inclined, he's a mechanic, I won't loan him a hammer for fear of him breaking it. I certainly would not let him use my machinery. I think it is more important to judge their mentality in regards to precision/accuracy.

When my grandfather was hiring, (I know... ancient times) he had two main qualifications before he would consider an applicant. They had to show up in person, first and foremost. If someone called in and asked if we were hiring, he would tell them no. That was his judge of their character. They were too lazy to even show up. Second, he would have them machine a part. He didn't really care if they machined the part correctly, if they read the blueprint right, it was all in how they held the micrometer. How they handled the tools. Reading a blueprint and machining a part can be taught. Rough and crude is a mentality that is not easily overcome.

You have to tailor your aptitude test to the type of work that you do. You will sell yourself short with a complicated math test. Most kids couldn't trig their way out of a wet paper bag. This may be a bigger criteria if you do a lot of manual machining that requires angled setups. CNC... maybe not so much.

Another criteria that you may want to consider, what form of extra curricular activities? Church, Boy Scouts, one of the many community service groups? If you want to hire a long term candidate, it is important to consider more than just their work ethic and abilities. I have a good friend of mine who is a great machinist. I do not think I would ever hire him because of his attitude towards the world and those around him. I have another good friend who is a marginal machinist, who I would hire in a heartbeat, because of his attitude towards the world and those around him.

I think most important, if you are looking for guys to bring up from nothing, is to make sure you make it clear to them, how much you value them and that you have big plans for your candidates.
 
Don't forget to ask them about their cell phones.. The last batch my employer hired wouldn't put the damn things down, and getting caught with one is a firing offense.....
 
Zero tolerance policy for cell phones is kind of a joke in society today. We have an informal cell phone policy. Use it if you need it, but don't abuse it. I have had to remind a couple of the real young kids about the policy, but no write ups or terminations yet.
 
If you were to allow cell phones, but required all phones on the floor to have Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and whatever the hell social media apps to be uninstalled, that might stop a lot of temptation. They can always reinstall whatever the hell after work.
 
If you were to allow cell phones, but required all phones on the floor to have Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and whatever the hell social media apps to be uninstalled, that might stop a lot of temptation. They can always reinstall whatever the hell after work.
You'd spend more time enforcing rules like this than the time you'd loose if no rules were in place at all. Plus the sour attitudes rules like this create.

I just fire people that aren't grown up enough to put in a reasonable day's work. That sets the tone pretty well in the shop.
 
A general I.Q. test is a good place to start. Stupid people don't make good machinists. They might make a good parts loader, but not machinist. And again, EVERY intelligent person wont made a good machinist.
 
When I was an electrical contractor we had a formal state approved apprentice program. We hired a new apprentice or two every year. However our rule was you work as a shop boy for a year and if that works out we will sponsor you. That way we didn’t waste time with someone that wasn’t really interested or capable. We were a good shop with a great reputation and never had a problem hiring at any level.
 
A general I.Q. test is a good place to start. Stupid people don't make good machinists. They might make a good parts loader, but not machinist. And again, EVERY intelligent person wont made a good machinist.

Funny, back when I was a kid I applied for a job as a machine repair tech. They gave me an aptitude test which I comprehensively failed by getting something like 99% correct. Manager told me I'd be bored in 6 months so it was a waste of time for both of us.

They gave me a more challenging job instead.

Nearly 3 decades later I applied for another job doing software design work. They had an aptitude test too, which I failed. Said I didn't have the right sort of mind set to be good at it. I thought that was funny as hell seeing as I already had been developing scientific/engineering software for over a decade, and went on to make some serious money from it before I retired. Just got a consulting offer yesterday too.

Point being, IQ and aptitude tests need to be treated with skepticism IME.

PDW
 
...

Point being, IQ and aptitude tests need to be treated with skepticism IME.

PDW

One can not overemphasize enough the skepticism you have to give to such testing.
Some people just don't test well.
After about 400 employees over a long period of time I give just about zero credibility to such testing.
The absolute worse are tests you design yourself. They are so biased to your internal thought process.

Interesting the cell phone dismal on a first offense in a tier one. A union shop?
Where I worked it took many violations in a year. Each with a write up and meeting in the union office.
Bob
 
One can not overemphasize enough the skepticism you have to give to such testing.
Some people just don't test well.
After about 400 employees over a long period of time I give just about zero credibility to such testing.
The absolute worse are tests you design yourself. They are so biased to your internal thought process.

Interesting the cell phone dismal on a first offense in a tier one. A union shop?
Where I worked it took many violations in a year. Each with a write up and meeting in the union office.
Bob

I question the wisdom of hiring someone that tests at the level of a moron, in spite of your "gut" feelings.
 








 
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