Opening A New Machine Shop

ShoreMachining · May 31, 2018

Hello All,

I am currently trying to start my own machine shop. I've started out by getting a Haas VF-3 with a 5 axis trunnion. Built my website and started to reach out to potential customers introducing myself. The one question I have to myself is what kind of Certifications should I try getting for my business? Are they really needed at this time? As of right now I'm setup everything to start my business, but I'm working out of a 4 car garage till I can lease a nice shop or build. Whats everyone's thoughts? Is there any recommendations to any new shop owner.

Thanks guys.

Garwood · May 31, 2018

ShoreMachining said:
what kind of Certifications should I try getting for my business?

A business degree.

HuFlungDung · May 31, 2018

Found your website easy enough

Jordan B Peterson says "Tell the truth, or at least don't lie". "No job is too big or too small" is a hyperbolic statement that doesn't sit well with machinists who have a clue. I also have a VF3 and there are plenty of jobs that are too big.

And where is your lathe capability advertised?

ShoreMachining · May 31, 2018

Good Advise with that. No lathe capabilities yet. I have my eye on a SL25Y that I'm trying to get but no official word on a lathe.

Jashley73 · May 31, 2018

ShoreMachining said:
Good Advise with that. No lathe capabilities yet. I have my eye on a SL25Y that I'm trying to get but no official word on a lathe.

"We're currently looking to add turning capabilities. Is there a certain need, or issue you're having trouble finding?"

You can never be too good at sales, and speaking with customers. Learning to smoke out the tire-kickers from the serious buyers will save you a lot of time & frustration. If the customer is asking you to quote something, this is when you need to start asking the what/why/how questions before taking their RFQ & running.

When you feel comfortable that you're getting good information & real opportunities, then follow-up quickly. That's easier to do if you're not bogged down with tire-kicker RFQ's.

By the way, I'm a full-time sales person and am trying to break that cycle myself.

I think it's wise for you to start with the 5-axis mill, and possibly Y-axis lathe if within your means. That will give you an edge over most (all) start-ups, and many established businesses.

moonlight machine · May 31, 2018

ShoreMachining said:
Hello All,

I am currently trying to start my own machine shop. I've started out by getting a Haas VF-3 with a 5 axis trunnion. Built my website and started to reach out to potential customers introducing myself. The one question I have to myself is what kind of Certifications should I try getting for my business? Are they really needed at this time? As of right now I'm setup everything to start my business, but I'm working out of a 4 car garage till I can lease a nice shop or build. Whats everyone's thoughts? Is there any recommendations to any new shop owner.

Thanks guys.

Nice shop = big payments, keep your overhead low, getting started is a bitch. What cad cam system do you have to go with your 5 axis? Get a hot dog cart.

ShoreMachining · Jun 1, 2018

I have 3 cam software. Mastercam, (not really using this much anymore) Fusion 360 and Powermill. Powermill is the main software I've been using in my shop

broke · Jun 1, 2018

I would also advise you get rid of the "no job to big or small". In reality the only "big" job that will walk in the door is going to be big size wise which you cant handle on a vf3 with a trunnion. The "small" jobs will potentially suck you dry and kill any chance of growth you have. We flat out don't do work for anyone who doesn't have liability insurance which is required by our insurance but adds a way for us to shut the door on the hobby guys. I know its hard to turn away any work but if you can afford to be more exclusive in the beginning it will pay dividends in the future.

I wouldn't bother with certification of any kind at your stage. From everyone I talk to its an expensive way of giving yourself more internal work. The kind of work that requires ISO-anything isn't going to a guy in a 4 car garage.

If you can master the book keeping side of it you'll be able to do well with those mill capabilities. I would add a lathe of some kind for tooling work if nothing else.

Antarctica · Jun 1, 2018

I'd throw something into the pot here, but it would mean more coming from Kevin Potter, who will probably be along shortly.

As far as certs go, it would depend on the area and work, but the only ones that I can think of that would really add to the bottom line of a one man shop would be weld certs....

Best of luck to you. When things start picking up, post a shop thread..

machinistrrt · Jun 1, 2018

So you want to start a shop?
Here's a few questions:
If you have machine payments, don't quit your day job. What about tooling?
How about inspection kit? Calibration? CMM not needed, but only buy high quality gear. Get mil specs on qc and qa, MIL-Q-9858A comes to mind as a starting point, easily available on the net. Look for other mil-q specs.

cnc's need to keep the spindle turning to make money, very short runs will eat you up on programming and setup.
Every shop needs an engine lathe and Bridgeport, drill press, saws to keep the production machines producing.

mkd · Jun 1, 2018

I started a shop with the goal of having a blend of my own product and job shop work.
so far dabbling with creating gun parts have proved mostly fruitless. One big online retailer just shot me down on a coupe of product submissions as not filling a unique need. (so i'm a little but hurt at the moment).
So as Mike Rowe says; follow opportunity, not your dreams.

DukeJCDC · Jun 2, 2018

Take everything! Find a small local shop you can out source to for stuff too big or lathe work. Stick on a tiny markup for those things.

Even short jobs until you get a proper front end process going with overhead. As long as it is quoted correctly, it shouldn't matter how many times you setup it have to program. Setup costs should be paid for by the customer.

I wouldn't worry about getting certs of any kind till you grow a little bit. Just make sure you create some kind of process that generates records and that will definitely make it easier to get any kind of cert. A little more time on lining things up before cutting chips, makes like a whole lot easier after.

Focus on equipment. Getting all the proper qc equipment, all the proper Tooling and setup around your machine. Once you have all of that lined up perfect, your throughput should be ready to increase and grow.

Most work you can get doesn't require a cert until you get into aerospace or some kind of specialty like that. If you expand your quality reasonably and show customers you give that extra care to be correct, that should be strong enough to grow your initial customer base.

Comatose · Jun 2, 2018

Who are your customers going to be? The customers drive the certs (and the machines, and the terms, any everything else), not the other way around.

gbent · Jun 2, 2018

machinistrrt said:
Get mil specs on qc and qa, MIL-Q-9858A comes to mind as a starting point, easily available on the net. Look for other mil-q specs.

MIL Q 9858 is for aircraft parts. MIL I 45208 is a much more reasonable mil spec. Both are long since obsolete, with the US giving all rights to their specs to SAE, who now charge dearly for the latest copy.

AARONT · Jun 6, 2018

Be a one stop shop. If you can't do it at your shop. Know somewhere you can send it to have it done. Whether it be turn work(Currently), heat treat, grinding, plating, etc.

Stay in your garage as long as you can.

metlcutr55 · Jun 8, 2018

Garwood said:
A business degree.

I graduated high school and went on to college, only stayed a year. I was a math & science guy, was convinced that was the ultimate, and business degrees were just a way to get a degree without being "smart". my cousin followed the business degree path. after my short college stay, and finishing a millwright apprenticeship, I became a machinist. worked for others. then had my own small shop for 12 years. then worked for others again after the 2008 money crash forced me back into workin for the man. im retired, 63, have enough to get by. convinced now that if I had a business education, id have "made it" thru the hard times of the late 2000's. and that id have grown and profited much more being a better businessman. my business grad cousin put 3 kids thru college, and owns and ceo's a major nationwide mechanical equipment company. I got a corolla and hes got a lexus. good for him, and I mean it. he knew when to sit, when to move and expand. I didn't. and its ok. I got a cold Newcastle ale here on Friday afternoon, a wonderful wife and daughter and son in law, 4 beautiful grandkids. 70 and sunny and a smile on my face. so back to the OP, be talented hard working, yada yada. but being a good businessman right up there on the list. good luck!

IndyDan · Jun 9, 2018

Garwood said:
A business degree.

Business degree
There's four years of your life down the drain.

I am 55 years old, no schooling past 8th grade. I was there until 12th and I got the diploma. BIG DEAL!

You can't wipe your a$$ with what the current education system has to offer.

I didn't learn anything I could use in the real world past 8th grade.

I have never had any machining schooling.

I bought my first cnc in 2013 at age 50, and I now have 7 machines.

Hurco VM30i 50x20x20
Hurco TM6 Lathe
Hurco VMX50 59x26x26 - Ordered ( A/C 4th & 5th Axis ) full 5 Axis.
ProtoTrak 16/30 Lathe
ProtoTrak 2 op mill
Stepcraft 3 Axis desktop with laser ( gasket making & engraving machine.) this machine is amazing. We have every option made for this thing.
Mark-In-Box CNC engraving machine.

I am completely self taught ( you tube ) is amazing.
You can learn more quicker on YouTube then at any college.

It all depends how aggressive you are to learn.

I have 5 full time guys including myself. My shop is in the woods 10 miles from town.

Give me a 15 year old farm town kid that's focused, that doesn't smoke pot and take perscription drugs for A.D.D. And I will teach him how to make money. By the time he is 20 he is making $25 plus per hour plus bonus's making over $45 per hour on commission. ( you want to see ( Drive ) set up a commission system.

Between the college professors and the M.D.Doctors screwing up our kids,

and then the M.D. Doctors putting all the men over 40 years old on cholesterol & high blood pressure meds.....they turn these guys into walking junkie's - ( if anyone chooses to take perscrption drugs from any of these moron M.D. Doctors coming out school you need your heads examined. There is a natural cure for 99% anything that goes wrong with us. Most of the problems are caused by poor diet. - In my shop if I catch anyone taking prescription drugs
Without my approval you will be fired.

If this country would pull their heads out of theirs a$$es and realize we need about 90% less kids going to college and more kids 15 to 16 years old we can work with and and train at a resonable wage. ( THAT HAVE NO SCHOOL LOANS ) JESUS !!! It's not complicated..... 16 years old you can give the 8 per hour the first year, 10 the second year, 12 per hour the third year, 15 the 4 th year. Year 5 20 to 28 per hour plus commission ( depends on your type shop ) and how well you are managing your Men. ( if they start at 16 years old they live at home for free, and have ZERO expenses ) they eat the parents food, use their washer & dryer. So these kids are making good money and learning a valued education in the machining industry. It's a no-brainer.

I have 4 great guys, 10% because they are smart - 90% of the reason they are great is the simple fact that I trained them to do what we do here at Indy Specialty.

Trying to get good help is almost impossible thanks to the far left nut jobs like Schummer & Pelosi & their clan of idiots ( And I don't want to hear any BS about politics ! This isn't political it's just the hard cold facts.

Thank the all Mighty above for Trump he is the only hope to save this screwed up country. ( everything started getting better the day he got in office )

America - A country infatuated with healthcare and college.

Healthcare - basicly not needed. I am 55 years old and I have never had healthcare insurance and I do not go to the doctor and I am never going to unless I break my arm. ( if I do I will write a check for my bill and go home ) if you have a symptom - search YouTube - you will find a better answer then any Practicing M.D. Doctor can give you.. ( there are more great Doctors on you tube that gave up their practice because they realized how corrupt the drug industry is ) It's a proven fact that more people are killed by Medical Doctors and per riptide drugs then are ever saved.

College - co-signed loans guaranteed by the parents - money to universities that ruin our kids brains with progressive values
And they learn nothing that can be used by existing business's.

I wish you the best of luck with your new shop ! Congrats !

Godspeed !! Machine safely !!

Dan

IndyDan · Jun 9, 2018

machinistrrt said:
So you want to start a shop?
Here's a few questions:
If you have machine payments, don't quit your day job. What about tooling?
How about inspection kit? Calibration? CMM not needed, but only buy high quality gear. Get mil specs on qc and qa, MIL-Q-9858A comes to mind as a starting point, easily available on the net. Look for other mil-q specs.

cnc's need to keep the spindle turning to make money, very short runs will eat you up on programming and setup.
Every shop needs an engine lathe and Bridgeport, drill press, saws to keep the production machines producing.

All good info..... IMO - Except the Bridgeport part. I bought one years back.
I was told you will always need that unit..... For me they are the biggest waste of 24 cubic feet of shop space there is - Unless it's got a CNC set up on it ( sell it ) - ( Shelves are of more value ) - I can do any small little job so much faster on either of our Hurco machines.

I believe if you have a Hurco or a ProtoTrak you don't need a Bridgeport.

We have one machine that is a Fancu type machine & we use Cad/Cam on that machine and play around with the g-code when we have to.

That being said....... the Hurco's and the ProtoTraks absolutely rule over the fancu BU$$shit..... By the time you get a small job ready to go thru cad/cam you are already done on a Hurco the parts are shipped and you are on to the next job.

Yes, the Fancu control machines are fine once dialed in for push button guys. ( the fancu control is really tan out dated pile of junk ) - and many like to claim the Mori's and other Jap machines are tougher and more accurate.

To me it's all about the bottom line....... Money - and survival of the fittest.

The used 2007 Hurco VMX50 I bought with coolant thru spindle, chip wash down system that weights 20,000 pounds and holds tenths with ease and can hammer thru Heated treated material with a 3 inch cutter with ease that I only paid $50,000 for is a money making monster. A huge table with 31 inches of ( Z ) clearance from the table it's awesome for the money invested.

These Hurco's are making our shop very ease to grow quickly because my guys learn to run them with such swiftness.

Msut10 · Jun 12, 2018

IndyDan said:
Business degree
There's four years of your life down the drain.

I am 55 years old, no schooling past 8th grade. I was there until 12th and I got the diploma. BIG DEAL!

You can't wipe your a$$ with what the current education system has to offer.

I didn't learn anything I could use in the real world past 8th grade.

I have never had any machining schooling.

I bought my first cnc in 2013 at age 50, and I now have 7 machines.

Hurco VM30i 50x20x20
Hurco TM6 Lathe
Hurco VMX50 59x26x26 - Ordered ( A/C 4th & 5th Axis ) full 5 Axis.
ProtoTrak 16/30 Lathe
ProtoTrak 2 op mill
Stepcraft 3 Axis desktop with laser ( gasket making & engraving machine.) this machine is amazing. We have every option made for this thing.
Mark-In-Box CNC engraving machine.

I am completely self taught ( you tube ) is amazing.
You can learn more quicker on YouTube then at any college.

It all depends how aggressive you are to learn.

I have 5 full time guys including myself. My shop is in the woods 10 miles from town.

Give me a 15 year old farm town kid that's focused, that doesn't smoke pot and take perscription drugs for A.D.D. And I will teach him how to make money. By the time he is 20 he is making $25 plus per hour plus bonus's making over $45 per hour on commission. ( you want to see ( Drive ) set up a commission system.

Between the college professors and the M.D.Doctors screwing up our kids,

and then the M.D. Doctors putting all the men over 40 years old on cholesterol & high blood pressure meds.....they turn these guys into walking junkie's - ( if anyone chooses to take perscrption drugs from any of these moron M.D. Doctors coming out school you need your heads examined. There is a natural cure for 99% anything that goes wrong with us. Most of the problems are caused by poor diet. - In my shop if I catch anyone taking prescription drugs
Without my approval you will be fired.

If this country would pull their heads out of theirs a$$es and realize we need about 90% less kids going to college and more kids 15 to 16 years old we can work with and and train at a resonable wage. ( THAT HAVE NO SCHOOL LOANS ) JESUS !!! It's not complicated..... 16 years old you can give the 8 per hour the first year, 10 the second year, 12 per hour the third year, 15 the 4 th year. Year 5 20 to 28 per hour plus commission ( depends on your type shop ) and how well you are managing your Men. ( if they start at 16 years old they live at home for free, and have ZERO expenses ) they eat the parents food, use their washer & dryer. So these kids are making good money and learning a valued education in the machining industry. It's a no-brainer.

I have 4 great guys, 10% because they are smart - 90% of the reason they are great is the simple fact that I trained them to do what we do here at Indy Specialty.

Trying to get good help is almost impossible thanks to the far left nut jobs like Schummer & Pelosi & their clan of idiots ( And I don't want to hear any BS about politics ! This isn't political it's just the hard cold facts.

Thank the all Mighty above for Trump he is the only hope to save this screwed up country. ( everything started getting better the day he got in office )

America - A country infatuated with healthcare and college.

Healthcare - basicly not needed. I am 55 years old and I have never had healthcare insurance and I do not go to the doctor and I am never going to unless I break my arm. ( if I do I will write a check for my bill and go home ) if you have a symptom - search YouTube - you will find a better answer then any Practicing M.D. Doctor can give you.. ( there are more great Doctors on you tube that gave up their practice because they realized how corrupt the drug industry is ) It's a proven fact that more people are killed by Medical Doctors and per riptide drugs then are ever saved.

College - co-signed loans guaranteed by the parents - money to universities that ruin our kids brains with progressive values
And they learn nothing that can be used by existing business's.

I wish you the best of luck with your new shop ! Congrats !

Godspeed !! Machine safely !!

Dan

What are your thoughts on the moon landings?

I will second Dan's comment on youtube. It'll teach you most of what you need to know about machining and running a business. Just be sure to put on your BS filter.

Opening A New Machine Shop

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