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    Are wages really that different between running a lathe making contract parts vs running a lathe repairing parts?
    I know from sending work out, I can get work done for half what I would charge but I just thought it was from the oversupply of equipment with a small envelope.
    Most repair shops in this area they won't touch a part that is worth less than 1000.00 as the bill to do just a simple repair will be more than the part is worth.
    But a couple weeks ago I had 6 washers made less than 6" dia. Guy charged me 10.00 each he supplied material and delivered. I was trying to figure out how he could possibly be making a cent profit. I gave him a hundred had expected bill to be 250-300.00. He said that was the going rate for that type part.
    Maybe shops need to quit driving each others price down and just price to make a fair profit and living. Just some thoughts from a old man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DouglasJRizzo View Post
    There always a second time to do it right...
    Looks nice cause we did it twice!

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    I do not base pay on what the "going rate" allows.

    The best way to find out if an applicant is worthy is to pay him minimum wage for 6 months. Many of these kids do not know how to loosen or tighten a bolt. The overwhelmingly majority of these applicants are worthless at negative levels of pay.

    6 months is my threshold of training.

    After 6-9 months, will talk pay.
    What is minimum wage where you are at? Don't many cities in California have a higher minimum than the state minimum which I assume is way higher than the federal minimum of $7.25.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McClure Machine View Post
    Are wages really that different between running a lathe making contract parts vs running a lathe repairing parts?

    ....

    Maybe shops need to quit driving each others price down and just price to make a fair profit and living. Just some thoughts from a old man.
    Again, very few customers are going to ship a part to China for repair, so yes, the market is wildly different.

    The shop making washers often feels like they need to charge based on perceived value. Plenty of customers will just send the part overseas and wait 3 to 4 weeks if they can save 75%. The explosion of all these manufacturing web portals has made that process a lot less painful for the consumer than it was even four or five years ago.

    As much as I dislike big brother, I do agree that there has to be a legislative solution if we want to hang on to domestic manufacturing. The natural market forces here are just going to push more work elsewhere as technology increases global competition. Although perhaps it is best just to let nature take it's course, and kill most of the low margin US manufacturing. There will always be some amount of ITAR work, super expedite work, and NDA tech parts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CITIZEN F16 View Post
    Don't many cities in California have a higher minimum than the state minimum which I assume is way higher than the federal minimum of $7.25.
    Mostly no. SF is kind of unusual, so much of their business is hotels and restaurants now, it's surrounded on three sides by water and Burlingame is not nice, so if a hotel owner wants to get $300 a night for a shitty room, he can't just move to Richmond. That means the City can make stuff stick that Coalinga cannot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CITIZEN F16 View Post
    What is minimum wage where you are at? Don't many cities in California have a higher minimum than the state minimum which I assume is way higher than the federal minimum of $7.25.
    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Mostly no.
    Huh? @ EG, isn't minimum wage in Californa $14/hr? I think most major municipalities have higher minimum wage than that.
    Sometimes I wonder how long it's been since some of you have left the armchair...

    California - MinimumWage.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by CITIZEN F16 View Post
    What is minimum wage where you are at? Don't many cities in California have a higher minimum than the state minimum which I assume is way higher than the federal minimum of $7.25.
    I don't know what the exact minimum wage is, I use the $12 rate for unskilled labor. I do not primarily train applicants to load parts and press buttons. We do very little production machining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    Huh? @ EG, isn't minimum wage in Californa $14/hr?
    Yeah, but that's state, not city.

    Surprised by your chart tho, more places than I thought have a slightly higher wage. Oops. ($.21 ? At least they tried.)

    But if you notice, except for LA and San Diego, they are almost all centered around SF. Fricking libtards And there's a lot more than 34 California cities so I'm still technically correct. But you're right, wrong in spirit, mea culpa

    Does look like progress is being made, knock me over with a tailfeather.

    I think most major municipalities have higher minimum wage than that.
    Except for LA and SF, those aren't "major municipalities." Novato ? Milpitas ?

    Oh wait. Maybe I'm too used to real cities now

    Sometimes I wonder how long it's been since some of you have left the armchair ...
    Five months and marking off the days

    Does look like our man otrlt is breaking California state labor law tho. Hmmm ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by McClure Machine View Post
    Are wages really that different between running a lathe making contract parts vs running a lathe repairing parts?
    I know from sending work out, I can get work done for half what I would charge but I just thought it was from the oversupply of equipment with a small envelope.
    Most repair shops in this area they won't touch a part that is worth less than 1000.00 as the bill to do just a simple repair will be more than the part is worth.
    But a couple weeks ago I had 6 washers made less than 6" dia. Guy charged me 10.00 each he supplied material and delivered. I was trying to figure out how he could possibly be making a cent profit. I gave him a hundred had expected bill to be 250-300.00. He said that was the going rate for that type part.
    Maybe shops need to quit driving each others price down and just price to make a fair profit and living. Just some thoughts from a old man.
    There can be a big difference, running a lathe to do repair work requires a skill that far exceeds the skill to just operate an automatic lathe making simple parts out of materials that are easy to machine. I have trained quite a few people, if you had an automatic lathe making brass contact pins that can run a week straight without even an offset, I could train a 100% novice to keep that thing feed, how to check and clean parts in probably a shift. I bet it would take a week or more to teach the same person to even make a shear pin on a manual machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    Huh? @ EG, isn't minimum wage in Californa $14/hr? I think most major municipalities have higher minimum wage than that.
    Sometimes I wonder how long it's been since some of you have left the armchair...

    California - MinimumWage.com
    I can't believe the tipped minimum wage in California is the same as the standard. In my state there is a $4.40 difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Yeah, but that's state, not city.

    Surprised by your chart tho, more places than I thought have a slightly higher wage. Oops. ($.21 ? At least they tried.)

    But if you notice, except for LA and San Diego, they are almost all centered around SF. Fricking libtards And there's a lot more than 34 California cities so I'm still technically correct. But you're right, wrong in spirit, mea culpa

    Does look like progress is being made, knock me over with a tailfeather.


    Except for LA and SF, those aren't "major municipalities." Novato ? Milpitas ?

    Oh wait. Maybe I'm too used to real cities now


    Five months and marking off the days

    Does look like our man otrlt is breaking California state labor law tho. Hmmm ....
    Hello Goldmember,

    $12.00
    Living Wage Calculation for El Dorado County, California

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    $12.00
    Living Wage Calculation for El Dorado County, California
    No skin off my nose but I believe if the state minimum is $14.00/hr, anyone who worked for you for $12.00 could go to the labor board and get the difference from you ... Maybe a worthwhile risk, but still a risk.

    This is one time when Newman109 could be a help ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CITIZEN F16 View Post
    I can't believe the tipped minimum wage in California is the same as the standard. In my state there is a $4.40 difference.
    From the website: "The tipped wage is the base wage for employees who earn tips (such as servers and bartenders). Tipped employees are guaranteed to earn the minimum wage when tips are included"

    So that $14 is INCLUDING tips. In practice, that can't work well. How the heck is an employer going to know the actual amount of tips.

    Jeff

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    No skin off my nose but I believe if the state minimum is $14.00/hr, anyone who worked for you for $12.00 could go to the labor board and get the difference from you ... Maybe a worthwhile risk, but still a risk.

    This is one time when Newman109 could be a help ?
    Keep checking Goldmember,
    You certainly have an abundance of time on your hands. I'm sure you will find any wrong doing, if it occurred at all. I would not want you to to overwork yourself in the process, so get plenty of rest tonight, you have allot of work to do.

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    1. Some of you are underestimating what **some** software types, just out of high end colleges get paid. To start. A few years ago it was revealed that summer interns at the FANAGs were getting $8K/month. MSFT similar. (One web source reports $121K to start, another $156K - could both be true depending on the role.)
    Why so much money? You think a good machinist is hard to hire/find/train? Software, real hard technical software development, is worse. Numbers change over time, but its not uncommon for elite software types to make more than lawyers, and than at least most doctors.. By the way it's really hard and the world is full of people how couldn't code their way out of a paper bag.

    When the newbie driver at the warehouse is getting $80K per year, you can assume the newbie elite software engineer will be getting $160K or more. (Unless there is a sudden glut - which does not appear to have happened in the last several decades.)


    2. Various measures suggest that many people's real income (inflation adjusted) has in fact been falling. This is not as clear as you might think because, for example, your 2018 smartphone is way more capable than whatever phone you had in 2000 - adjusting for that is hard. But yes, in a very real sense, $30K in 1984 $ is more like $120K now. And things like real estate in hot markets create very steep winner/loser curves,

    So don't ask yourself "why in F**** am I paying $40/hr for a green button pusher" - ask "how much did I pay button pushers compared to heavy package carriers at home depot 10 years ago? 5 years ago? 1-to-1? Then if the people lugging heavy stuff around at home depot are getting $40/hr now, you should assume you will be paying the same to push the green button. people you pay to think, exercise skill, judgement, etc. will be even more costly."


    3. Because of how the industry is structured, a lot of the people you'd really really like to hire are, in fact, your competitors. They own or co-own their own shops - because the return to capital/business/organizing is larger than the return to shop labor (at least in good times.)


    As I've noted before, when you go to hire, you aren't competing with just other shops, you are competing with everything else that person could reasonably do. Come to work at 6am to stand in front of noisy machine? Go to work at 8am and take care of puppies at the Vet's? Same wage rate. We shouldn't be surprized at people's choices.

    So yes, find or find and develop true winners, and expect to pay them as such. And yes, in machine deburring, various sorts of robots and auto-loaders, costly but capable software that makes people more productive, will be the way forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    If Florida, even the snakes are packing .45's. You're lucky it just bit you, and didn't cap yo' ass instead.

    [Seriously, that sucks, glad you got through it]
    You would have been ok because they are not known to bite other poisonous snakes.

  20. #77
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    []

    After a while working at a non skilled job looks way better .......more money, less bullshit.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmadness View Post
    Ehhhh your thesis has a glaring problem.

    Let's say it is correct. So yea businesses are throwing money at people just to get warm bodies in the door to keep the business running.

    So in 18 months what do you expect to happen? The business is just going to massively cut wages all of a sudden? The stock person is just going to accept going from $18/hr down to $14/hr? And prospective employees are going to take that lying down?

    No, the answer is clear. The current employee facing a wage cut is going to say F this, I am out and the prospective employee won't even consider that place because a store down the street is still offering $18/hour.

    Wages aren't going to go DOWN lmao. People are demanding more and clearly they refuse to work for less. What makes you think that will change? Many states have already expired their expanded unemployment schemes and the problem is persisting, so the issue involves alot more than just unemployment benefits.
    We are in a very different place regarding employment than we were even a decade ago. We have a gig economy now. That means that a lot of people don't have or want regular jobs that have regular hours. I have a nephew that does the gig thing and he told me that he loves it. He makes his own schedule and if he wants a week off he just doesn't schedule any gigs. Try that with a traditional job.

    My nephew delivers pizza sometimes and also delivers groceries for one of the larger grocery chains around our parts. He told me that he can often make around $35/hour with tips delivering groceries. The people that want things (booze) delivered in the middle of the night are very good tippers according to him.

    This seems to be a direct result of employers not wanting to be saddled with employees for many years and brought us the advent of temp agencies.

    There is a simple answer for the labor shortage for some companies. Share in the bounty and pay people more and they will leave other employers and come to you. That and an air conditioned shop helps a lot. I worked the majority of my career working in an air conditioned shop and if someone would have offered me $5.00/hour to let it go I'd have said hell no, and I'm in Michigan where we don't have the heat of southern states.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeachMePlease View Post
    I just had an emergency room visit followed by an ambulance ride to a hospital followed by an overnight stay at said hospital for a coral snake bite (Total time in the system, about 16 hours)....

    The initial bill, pre-insurance was $94.5K.

    Insurance settled for $5800.

    I owe $100 out of pocket.

    The system sucks.
    A few years ago I had a couple of stents put in a couple of arteries. Total bill was just under $60K. Insurance got it adjusted to around $10K. My out of pocket was about a grand all in. If I didn't have insurance to get the bill down to 1/6 of the original bill I'd have likely owed them $60K. No wonder so many people go bankrupt over health issues. I have a relative who is a bankruptcy attorney and he says that over half of the cases that he deals with are for health care bills.

    You are correct. Our medical system sucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    This is true, unfortunately. Started going downhill in what, the 80's?
    As I recall it started the day ronnie raygun fired the patco workers. I'm sure that the usual bunch of trump cult members will tell us that it had nothing to do with raygun but I know better.

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