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Machine investment

Should I ?


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    4

schnappi

Plastic
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Hi,

I've been machining for some years now parts for several companies that do special diamond brazing on the parts and sell them at a lot higher price, of course, as a final product.

I'm wondering if i should buy a vacuum furnace to do them myself and have a finished product myself.
Can you give some advices?
 
The vacuum furnace investment is around 50k.

If the clients figure it out - i might lose them. They represent 60% of my clientele.
 
Your customers probably have things you don't besides a brazing furnace. They probably have-
1) reputation
2) distributor network
3) other things

Many machinists lose their asses because they think the hardest part of manufacturing something for profit is making the part.
 
As someone who buys a lot of the PCD tipped inserts, you need to be careful with this path. There is a lot of work that goes into getting reliable inserts that won't tear out of the pocket due to bad brazing and the geometry is critical. It kinds of sounds like you already do this, so you might have a good understanding of some portions of the work that goes into it.

Something pretty much any business owner on here will tell you is that the machining side of the business is the easy one. They all say the hard part is dealing with the operations, scheduling, employees, taxes, etc. Go back and read some of the popular threads in the owner sub-forum to get some insight.
 
Don't do it. It sounds to me like you want to step on your own customers toes. Never, ever, not ever! A good idea.
As mentioned: doing the work is the easy part. Getting the work is the hard part.

Now, if you are implying that you want a piece of your customers market, and you intend to sell a finished product?
Basically becoming their competition? And, don't care if you lose this customer? Only you can answer that.
But, you best do a very thorough cost analysis first! I'm sure they are the established "go-to".
You are going to have to offer some pretty big advantage (price? Quality? Availability? etc...) to steal their sales.
And, you can bet, if you fail to deliver on whatever your advantage is? You wont get them back.

Just my 2-cents
 
Em ..
bad idea.

As You presented it.
There is approx. zero percent probability of You being able to make the products, and sell them to the same customers, that your current clients sell to.
In any meaningful volume, in any short timeframe less than a year.

While likely quickly losing, as You intimated, 60% of Your sales volume.

If You wanna start down that path, buy the furnace "for other business" and start looking at other similar products You could be making.
And sell them to totally other customers in other areas that don´t hardly compete at all, preferably internationally.

It will likely take 6-24 months for the new business to be running smooth, and be making a profit.
After 12 months of profitably and successfully selling the new stuff You make, then have a rethink.

It might well be that one or more of your customers, at that time, when you are already experienced and proven, might be willing to start using you to do it all.
If You could get that, that is what I would recommend.
You would get much less arpu, but zero sales/marketing/collections cost and a much larger volume.

Sales/marketing/collections (often support) tend to cost 10-30% of revenue.
Yes, they do.
Even if You don´t know it.
98% of people in small business don´t.
And if they don´t cost 30%, Your sales probably are not very good and not doing well (in professional terms).

Good sales/m is very expensive but/and brings tremendous profitable revenue onto the table, +/- immediately.
Bad sales/m/c is just a waste of money.
Most money spent on marketing s/m/c is just wasted. Everyone has an excuse for no results.

It´s a GREAT idea to be a better supplier for Your current clients.
Flextronics is the ultimate example, with 200.000+ workers.

They make iPhone metal shells.
65 operations, per phone, including multiple milling operations and laser drilling and media blasting.
They get about 9$ per phone for it, with 2$ or so going to consumables and materials.
I suspect about 5$ goes to amortisation and r&d.

(Almost) No-one here on PM would be able to do it that well.
Even If given 200m$ free money, to start with, approx zero-2 pm members could do that. Imho.
I could not, would not guarantee smooth running.
300M phone shells in a 4 months period, at 9$ each, 65 ops each, for 7$ each.
Absolutely no way.
For about 2-3$ in OPEX, leaving a gross margin of about 1$, or 0.5$ after secondary corporate expenses.

And Flextronics is one of the largest businesses in the world.
It´s a GREAT idea to be an integrated supplier to Your clients.
You just need to be good, or really good, at it.
 
Why would you risk losing 60% of your income copying what your customers build?
wish I could like this comment twice.



The vacuum furnace investment is around 50k.

If the clients figure it out - i might lose them. They represent 60% of my clientele.

What your gonna copy the current gen tooling they are having you make?
What about the next gen?
And after
What about the other related tooling that they farm to someone else?
Your gonna copy a few tools out of their catalog for a year before your stuff is outdated and fail.

If your asking this question, do you even have R&D? Bad idea all around
 
What would it cost them to set up and do your part on their own? Maybe a lot less than you think. You lose 60% of business and go tits up. They show up at the auction and buy a nice new furnace and other equipment for cheap.
 
What brazing are you doing? Single points or loose abrasive? I am extra curious as I too would LOVE to have a vacuum brazing furnace for my own products. Having the brazing outsourced will not work because they charge something like $1500 an hour for what they do.

I am fully in favor of making your own products vs machining someone else's, I have found there is multitudes more profit in assembly than machining and it is far easier. The tough part is getting there from just machining.
 
Hi guys,

Thank you all for the responds.

The question was a bit dumm but it was in my head for a long time.

So the deal is the following:

There is this company that we work for 11-12 years that has been bought by a world leader in that industry and a couple of workers - 3 years ago left and made their own company. With our help they started and now are up and running.

The big big company has hundreds of suppliers around the globe and we're left in the open .

The second company relies heavy on only one client and if the client find something cheaper(and better) he'll go that way, but they tried once but the end user didn't like it so they came back.

Those 2 companies as i said gather 60% of our $. But we have 6-7 companies that we supply for in other industries.

I really don't want to fck up my relationship with my partners so I've thought an end product with the machines that i have that doesn't cross to their stuff.

To DavidScott - i'm machining parts for both "single point pcd's and also with loose abrasive.
 








 
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