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Machine placement in shop

gear cutter

Cast Iron
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Location
MO, USA
I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how to arrange machines in my shop. I have a large G&L No. 45 boring mill and 3 large lathes 20" X 12', 36" X 10' & 52" X 16'. They are where they have to go and stay due to their size and the need for room to load them. They are not grouped together the boring mill is flanked on both sides by the smaller and medium size lathe.
I have Bridgeport mills, smaller lathes drill presses, 1 CNC mill and 2 CNC lathes. When I moved into my new building I didn't have time to really place things in any order I set machines where there was electricity to get them running. they are all over the place.
My question is how should they be grouped? All the mills together, CNC & manual? All the lathes together? CNC with CNC? Manual with manual? Does it matter? Am I putting to much thought into this?
 
If you have recurring or production work, it would be nice to have a flow pattern that goes in the order of machines used, ending at your shipping area.

If you have one or few pieces going to random machines, I don't think it would matter.

You might do a Google search, "machine shop work flow".

Paul
 
I think it was suggested a few years back get a large drawing of the floor area with a grid pattern and a separate clear overlays for electrical, shop air, crane access etc.

Make some cut outs that resemble the floor are of each machine must include work envelope around machines and path ways to access.

I would imagine that the flow of work though the shop, and ergonomics would dictate the best placement.
 
I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how to arrange machines in my shop. I have a large G&L No. 45 boring mill and 3 large lathes 20" X 12', 36" X 10' & 52" X 16'. They are where they have to go and stay due to their size and the need for room to load them. They are not grouped together the boring mill is flanked on both sides by the smaller and medium size lathe.
I have Bridgeport mills, smaller lathes drill presses, 1 CNC mill and 2 CNC lathes. When I moved into my new building I didn't have time to really place things in any order I set machines where there was electricity to get them running. they are all over the place.
My question is how should they be grouped? All the mills together, CNC & manual? All the lathes together? CNC with CNC? Manual with manual? Does it matter? Am I putting to much thought into this?

You can't really put too MUCH thought into these decisions, but there are a lot of factors involved, some of which may be more or less important depending on your mix of work, how the typical job runs for your shop, availability of lighting and electricity (as you noted), access for raw materials and parts movement as well as work envelope around machines, etc.

I would definitely suggest as the previous poster did looking for some online info and/or books on manufacturing operations organization for various ways of looking at what is essentially a shop-specific issue. You are the guy who has to decide what works for you, and how much effort (and money) you can expend. Just as a quick example, if you spent money changing your electrical connection availability, what would that allow you to do that would be better in your shop?
 
I think it was suggested a few years back get a large drawing of the floor area with a grid pattern and a separate clear overlays for electrical, shop air, crane access etc.

Make some cut outs that resemble the floor are of each machine must include work envelope around machines and path ways to access.

I would imagine that the flow of work though the shop, and ergonomics would dictate the best placement.

That's how I've done it in the past.. Almost like playing with a puzzle.

The one thing I've learned.. In real life, when the machines hit the floor, its always going to seem a lot
tighter than it looked on paper.. If you think a 4 foot walkway will give you plenty of room, go for 5 feet.

Another thing.. Electricity.. Apparently how you got in this conundrum to begin with.. Wire is freekin' expensive,
and running conduit isn't the most fun thing in the world. Also are you going to buy another power hog in the
future, leave room for that.

How to group them.. That all depends on you... If you are using the manual machines for second ops,
it makes no sense to have them grouped together on the other side of the shop..

If you have guys that just work on manual mills, and guys that just work on manual lathes, and guys
that just work on CNC mills, and guys that just work on CNC lathes, then it would make sense to group
the machines by category...
 
Old school...

Draw scale top views of everything including the work or envelope space for each.

Cut them out and make a floor plan of building in same scale.

Next use token to simulate movement like a board game.

Now place the items in the drawing and move them around to where they seem to fit well.

Use your token to simulate your work flow.

Make scale tokens for stock or lift trucks.

Back in the day we did things this way as easier to move paper.

South Bend had scale models of their machines that they would send to schools for them to do same.

They sent grid paper and the customer marked where everything went and that was part of the order process.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
If you have recurring or production work, it would be nice to have a flow pattern that goes in the order of machines used, ending at your shipping area.

If you have one or few pieces going to random machines, I don't think it would matter.

You might do a Google search, "machine shop work flow".

Paul

Some of the work is recurring but maybe 2 to 4 times a year. the only production work I do is cutting gear teeth. I farm out the production of the blanks or the customer supplies them. The gear machines are a whole different problem. They are everywhere.
 
If you have recurring or production work, it would be nice to have a flow pattern that goes in the order of machines used, ending at your shipping area.

If you have one or few pieces going to random machines, I don't think it would matter.

You might do a Google search, "machine shop work flow".

Paul

Not really. Machine shop production tends to be "small batch" manufacturing. It is most efficiently done just that way whether the batch size is 10 or 1000. "Assembly Line" or "Continuous Process " operations benefit from sequential flow.
I worked in a shop where they lived in a fantasy world. When I started a guy told me "we just got a new boss so they'll rearrange all the machines. It happens about every 6 months." He was right. About every 6 months, new boss and try to arrange stuff for their fantasy of parts just being passed from one machine to the other. It didn't work. When you have one cycle time of 2 minutes and the next op is less than 10 seconds then you have a guy waiting for a part 83% of the time.So run a batch, then another. Let the 10 second op run every 10 seconds, not every 2 minutes.
If you have large machines that run large parts the biggest factor is going to be handling those parts. Crane or forklift access will be more important than flow . Set up and work holding need to be close to where they are used. Things like this will save you time and money. Standing waiting for the next part, not so much.
 
Paper dolls

As noted above.

While gross workflow is nice, we rarely get the perfect shop.

My shop is long and skinny, and it would be nice to have the big auto saw near receiving and machines beyond, but My office is near receiving. Cutting finned extrusion can be way over the pain range.


Think about noise, air compressor, tumbler and auto saw are all grouped together, the downside in workflow[minor] is more than made up for in noise


Workflow related to actual operations is, in my mind, far more important than workflow operation to operation

In other words, put the lathes wherever they fit, with a bench behind them, the mills where they fit, with a bench behind them. Make sure your cart will fit in the aisle between them.

I would not include the work space in the size of my paper doll.

rank things according to use.

If you use a particular saw or whatever twice a year, have its work envelope overlap another low use machine, or a secondary aisle.
 
Paper dolls

As noted above.

While gross workflow is nice, we rarely get the perfect shop.

My shop is long and skinny, and it would be nice to have the big auto saw near receiving and machines beyond, but My office is near receiving. Cutting finned extrusion can be way over the pain range.


Think about noise, air compressor, tumbler and auto saw are all grouped together, the downside in workflow[minor] is more than made up for in noise


Workflow related to actual operations is, in my mind, far more important than workflow operation to operation

In other words, put the lathes wherever they fit, with a bench behind them, the mills where they fit, with a bench behind them. Make sure your cart will fit in the aisle between them.

I would not include the work space in the size of my paper doll.

rank things according to use.

If you use a particular saw or whatever twice a year, have its work envelope overlap another low use machine, or a secondary aisle.

My shop is set up the same way. Long and narrow. The offices start at the front and run along one side of the building. The overhead door to the parking lot is 10' X 10'. The door in the rear of the building is 14' X 14'. So all the large machines have to go in there.
Workflow related to actual operations seems the best method. My regular work process is mostly turn blank, cut keyway and drill and tap for set screws. Then cut gear teeth.
 
Suggest you think about contamination as well. Dirt and grinding grit away from clean parts, machine tools and measuring.

That is a concern. I have welding capability and the equipment to do it. That work does show up on a regular basis. I was always told machining and fabricating / welding work shouldn't be in the same room. It bothers me to think I could ruin machines with the grit from welding and grinding.
 
Welding is not bad like grinding unless you are close enough for flying spatter to get on machine. Grinding will shoot metal and the abrasives 30-40 ft away.

The problem is, welding *ALWAYS* goes with grinding. At least IME it does. I have about 5 angle grinders set up with cutoff disk, grinding disk(s), flap wheel, wire wheel etc etc. Faster to pick up a grinder than change over a disk.

My welding area is in the same bay as the big lathe and HBM because I don't have a choice, but if I did - the welding/grinding stuff would be exiled. Anyway, the Monarch came out of a welding shop so it's already well used - I'm re-scraping the top slide ways ATM, cross slide is next when I get more time.....

PDW
 
Having worked as tig welder in an aluminum shop that is not ALWAYS the case, I also do stainless work in "clean" environments for beverage makers and no grinding there either. Yes the two go hand in hand in a steel fab shop, which is most of what I do.
You are right about having many grinders set up for each task. I can have as many as 10 set up at one time, some are for truck use and others for shop, probably another 10 or so that need some form of repair or another, hope to revive 8 or so of those when time allows.
 
1. 2-d autocad layout
2. Include everything in building, including column foundations, undergrounds,
crane coverage, electrical boxes (with door swing), etc.
3. Show pallets, and forklift turning radius.
4. Show with colored lines, part flow from machine to machine, use typical
jobs.

I've taken the time to write up a more detailed explanation, search the archives.

Welding without grinding still makes black dust everywhere, plan for some ventilation, using the rest of the shop for "Make up air" to the weld shop.
And...machinist's don't like getting flashed all the time when they are trying to
split hairs.
 
I think it was suggested a few years back get a large drawing of the floor area with a grid pattern and a separate clear overlays for electrical, shop air, crane access etc.

Make some cut outs that resemble the floor are of each machine must include work envelope around machines and path ways to access.

I would imagine that the flow of work though the shop, and ergonomics would dictate the best placement.

For workflow, watch your shop employees. Do they have to wander all over the shop, or can they get the job done in one area. Ask their opinion, also. They work it everyday, so they probably know the problems best.
 
For workflow, watch your shop employees. Do they have to wander all over the shop, or can they get the job done in one area. Ask their opinion, also. They work it everyday, so they probably know the problems best.

Sometimes it does seem they are wandering around to complete a job. That is one of the things that prompted this thread. I have asked my people what they think but they are all young guys that came from production shops that where already laid out. They are as clueless as I now seem to be. We're really busy and that doesn't help we're kind of all feel overwhelmed sometimes.
 
Sometimes it does seem they are wandering around to complete a job. That is one of the things that prompted this thread. I have asked my people what they think but they are all young guys that came from production shops that where already laid out. They are as clueless as I now seem to be. We're really busy and that doesn't help we're kind of all feel overwhelmed sometimes.

That's the part about "colored lines" I wrote about, where you trace each job
thru the shop.

Your machines get located to clear the walls, electrical cabinets etc.

Then get moved for crane coverage.

Then get moved for forklift clearance load/unload.

Then get moved for "product flow".
 
That's the part about "colored lines" I wrote about, where you trace each job
thru the shop.

Your machines get located to clear the walls, electrical cabinets etc.

Then get moved for crane coverage.

Then get moved for forklift clearance load/unload.

Then get moved for "product flow".

I don't have Auto Cad so I'm going to have to do the paper cutout method I think.
 








 
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