Machine proof of ownership
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  1. #1
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    Default Machine proof of ownership

    I paid off my mazak 3 months ago and never received any sort of confirmation or letter from the lien holder (US Bank). This is the first high value machine I own and I want to make sure I obtain the appropriate documentation.

    Obviously calling the bank and discussing with them is the right next step, but I wanted to check with everyone here first to see if there is a specific document etc I should be requesting.

    Also - Do CNCs have titles? Specifically, Mazak and Brother as that's what I have.

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    I usually receive the original bill of sale from the lien holder when a machine is paid off. This is something I've always wondered about. Say you go to an auction and buy a machine. How do you know it was theirs to sell?

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    I don't think machines come with pink slips like cars. I always bought used, I never even got a bill of sale.

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    Never had the experience but certainly any commercial loan should have some form of release of lien when the obligation is satisfied.

    Regarding auctions, I believe at the start of most auctions I have heard something about guaranteeing clear title to the purchased items. I don't know if that is a money back guarantee or they are on the hook to satisfy the lien.

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    What Bill said.

    Wherever any formal lien existed and was filed, the lender is obligated to also file and furnish a release of it once paid-off. And you NEED that bit of paper. Home Mortgage, auto-loan, machinery loan, office equipment, even a small personal loan.

    You are right to chase them for that, and sooner, not later..

    "So far" it is but a clerical oversight. Or maybe gnarlier than that.

    Bean-counter hat on, there's a very high probability that YOUR lender laid-it-off to ANOTHER lender, individually, or bundled. That how the money-rental business works.

    Don't let that become a larger problem. "Time is of the essence." The players all too-often depart the scene, leaving whole tribes of others holding various (empty) bags and needful of Lawsters and Court filings.

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    I had a lease on a machine through US Bank. When I made the last payment, I received a check refunding the deposit, and they lifted the UCC filing. That was it. No formal "satisfaction" letter or anything like that.

    I have the lease paperwork, and records of making all the payments. That's enough to prove ownership as far as I'm concerned.

    Just go to the Sec State website and make sure the UCC filing was lifted. It may take a month or two to get recorded. The UCC filing is the bank's claim. When it's gone, it means the borrower has satisfied the contract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    I usually receive the original bill of sale from the lien holder when a machine is paid off. This is something I've always wondered about. Say you go to an auction and buy a machine. How do you know it was theirs to sell?
    Depends on who the seller is - if in receivership or bankruptcy, you'll get a bill of sale from the trustee and that over rides any previous claims. If not a receivership, you get a bill of sale from who is supposedly the owner - doesn't stop it later being claimed if there was a security registered against it, but you you'll have a solid case to sue who sold it to you .

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post

    Don't let that become a larger problem. "Time is of the essence." The players all too-often depart the scene, leaving whole tribes of others holding various (empty) bags and needful of Lawsters and Court filings.
    That happened to me. When I bought my shop, I got a standard mortgage, renewable every five years. When the time was coming up, I applied to the bank in the normal manner. Nothing happened. I tried other lenders, but no one would touch it, figuring that my bank knew something everyone else didn't know. Finally, after raising a moderate amount of fuss, it turned out that the loan officer had gone to another job and didn't bother to turn over loans in work to anyone else.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    I usually receive the original bill of sale from the lien holder when a machine is paid off. This is something I've always wondered about. Say you go to an auction and buy a machine. How do you know it was theirs to sell?
    Although an auction house "aka agent" can sell "as is" no warranty etc they can not under any circumstance sell something that the seller does not own. Auction laws very by state and in the US pretty much everywhere the auctioneer can be liable in court even if they didn't have knowledge that asset wasn't the property of the seller. I've been to many auctions where the auctioneer will drop lots from the sale due to questions about proper title to an asset. Most common would be torch tanks. Around here many auction houses won't sell them.

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    For any machines on finance, when I paid in full, I insisted on a written/formal letter from the lease/lending company stating that I had paid in full and was the legal owner of machine make xxxx model xxxx serial number xxxx.

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    In English common law,an auctioneer acts as agent for the vendor,and may give no better title than that owned by the vendor........but that is often over ridden by statute law governing auctioneers and agents.Best to find out what applies in your jurisdiction before shelling out your hard earned.......I do know a few people who have had surprises......and the same people who have been assured by lawyers,only for the lawyer to revise his advice when he looks in his references..............................next question ,,,why do finance companies refuse to issue completion documents for finance agreements......might have a lot to do with all the hidden commissions and payments that keep this shady industry afloat............retired finance company employees getting trailing comissions twenty years after they retire......out here completion documents must be paid for......as must return of property deeds and titles held as security.


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