Making a living with manual machines

waddycall · Oct 31, 2012

I currently do a little lathe and milling work both in my job and at home in my own time keeping motorbikes on the road. I've a passion for machine work and a boss who's a lunatic and as a result I have an idea of setting up a small manual machine shop to run part time whilst keeping up the day job (with a view to going full time if I get busy).

What I don't know is how feasible making a living with manual machines in the UK is and how much work I could expect to get.

I'm considering starting with a website to gauge interest and going from there. I'd appreciate any advice (positive or negative!).....

Thanks,

Pete

Mark McGrath · Oct 31, 2012

I have this discussion regularly with guys.I think there will always be a niche for a manual guy who knows his trade.I find the people who think all manual machines should be scrapped are not time served manual machinists but guys who have learned cnc.
One thing I have noticed,there are more "how do I do this" from the cnc guys than there are from the manual guys.
There`s one guy,in England,on this forum who does quite well with his manual machines.
He`s not in your area so shouldn`t be a problem.

thedave · Oct 31, 2012

Another day, another CNC vs manual thread. The real question is this. Can you provided a needed service or a product, and can you make a living at it. Case in point. There is a lady that makes a living shipping tumbleweeds all over the world. So I would say, don't go into debt, but get some manual machines, they can be had at mostly reasonable prices, and don't listen to the critics. I started a business making a small product on a $ 40 cheap tabletop drill press (ya horrable freight, didn't know any better). Upgraded to a cheap, table top mill which payed for a larger crappy mill (have learned many lessons up to this point). That however allowed me to learn enough about prototyping and product design to create a great new product that I will launch in the next few weeks. I won't be producing them, but without a cheap drill press, I wouldn't have been able to connect the dots. Also, keep your day job until it costs too much not to do it.

Guest · Oct 31, 2012

Two problems, you can only run one manual machine at a time, and when you stop cranking handles you stop making money. You can still make money with a manual shop, but adding a few CNCs will increase your hourly profits.

m98custom1212 · Oct 31, 2012

If you could find the right type of work..such as emergency repair, simple one off parts, mod this to fits this (think rc cars motorcycles, cars, etc) then I could see a good living.

Maybe some custom frab work.. add a welder and a torch?

SND · Oct 31, 2012

I do no repair, mainly lower quantity parts though still have a few jobs that sometimes are in the 100-1000 range. Manual work is paying for my cnc mill, its been sitting for 5 weeks.
Lots of competition in cnc, not as much for good quality manual work, though there is definitely less of that work to be had anyhow but for what is good, there's still some $ left in it.
Can't say that about a lot of the cnc work.

waddycall · Oct 31, 2012

Thanks a lot for the replies, they're exactly what I was hoping for so far. I'll be trying to get the one off and low volume jobs etc. I plan to start off one or two days a week and see how I get on. I'll spread the word and see if the phone rings!

Limy Sami · Oct 31, 2012

Mark McGrath said:
IThere`s one guy,in England,on this forum who does quite well with his manual machines.
He`s not in your area so shouldn`t be a problem.

That might be me

Some thoughts to answer the OP,...........(and I'm not being a smartass) it depends on what you call a living, if you're working from home or a small low rent shop, you can forget about the 30 - 40 quid an hour that's bandied about, IME 20/ hour is good going.

With all the other work involved in running your own show, reckon on no more than 5 billable hours a day, ( 5 billable hours in a day? - now that's what I call living

)

If you've a mortgage, loans to be serviced ''dependants'' etc etc, it's probablyy not for you, if you've a champagne lifestyle it definitely ain't

IME whatever work you will be competetive at will be niche, which unless you are very lucky, such niche work does not pay mega bucks.

Don't whatever you do, borrow money to set yourself up,..... that's a one way ticket to the county and then bankruptcy court.

It's my choice, but I don't do time and materials, each job is quoted, many fewer arguments that way.

Get your bullshit detector serviced and tuned to race ready, you'll need it, there are no end of bottle nosed wankers always on the look out for a mug, and some of them are very good at it.

wawoodman · Oct 31, 2012

Bottle nosed wankers! I love it.

I guess that's equivalent to "pencil-necked geek," or my personal favorite, "semi-literate pig f****r," on our side of the pond.

Mark McGrath · Oct 31, 2012

Was there not a guy on the forums a while back from Cornwall who was doing the exact same?
Seem to remember he was doing work for boats.
Must be gone as I don`t recollect seeing him lately.
Then there`s Pistonskirt from Plymouth who posts on here sometimes but I don`t know exactly what he does or what with.

Mark McGrath · Oct 31, 2012

wawoodman said:
Bottle nosed wankers! I love it.

I guess that's equivalent to "pencil-necked geek," or my personal favorite, "semi-literate pig f****r," on our side of the pond.

I think Sami`s a bit of a battle hardened cynic.

Limy Sami · Oct 31, 2012

Mark McGrath said:
I think Sami`s a bit of a battle hardened cynic.

MMMM? ............. ok what's your angle?

Johnny N · Oct 31, 2012

I know a couple of people in the UK who just about make a living from a small lathe and a mill in a garage sized shop doing bike / car one off type stuff.

Youve got to run pretty fast to see £100/ clear at the end of a day though, and thats before the taxman sees his cut (im pretty sure he does not see it very often though

)

Getting handy with a welder should help quite a bit for a low capital outlay (but quite a time investment getting competent) - lots of the jobs Ive seen tend to be 'make us one of those, that one of those fits into, and weld it onto that for me.... ok, sixty quid.... how much????? , ok, fifty for cash..... can I pick it up after dinner....

Mark McGrath · Oct 31, 2012

Limy Sami said:
MMMM? ............. ok what's your angle?

I work on the basis of do unto others before they do unto you.

pistonskirt · Oct 31, 2012

Mark McGrath said:
Then there`s Pistonskirt from Plymouth who posts on here sometimes but I don`t know exactly what he does or what with.

Who eff's about with manual machines (S&B 1024vsl, CVA, Master toolmaker, Bridgeport etc) "in support" of my engine building work which charges out at £60 per hour

What I can assure you is that whilst stood at my manual machines I am bloody lucky to scrape £20 per hour the majority of the time, and thats "in house" work, I certainly would not care to be at the mercy of walk ins for a living.

Overheads / taxes / parasite costs are just too high in the UK (even Cornwall

) these days to make ends meet doing manual machine work alone.

regards

Brian

Limy Sami · Oct 31, 2012

Mark McGrath said:
I work on the basis of do unto others before they do unto you.

That's OK then.

(He had me worried a for a minute

)

Tom Lg · Oct 31, 2012

wawoodman said:
Bottle nosed wankers! I love it.

I guess that's equivalent to "pencil-necked geek," or my personal favorite, "semi-literate pig f****r," on our side of the pond.

He was being polite. Otherwise it would have been "spotty bottle-nosed wankers."

alphonso · Oct 31, 2012

Dualkit said:
Two problems, you can only run one manual machine at a time, and when you stop cranking handles you stop making money. You can still make money with a manual shop, .............

I have to disagree with that statement. You can run more than one manual machine at a time. I can have two lathes, a knee mill, tracer lathe and VTL making chips at the same time. Been doing that for 35+ years. Just have think about each job to figure out how to sequence the machines. I won't answer the phone when all this is happening.

I will admit that we don't do it as much since we got CNC equipment.

sealark37 · Oct 31, 2012

If you are to be successful in your new endeavor, there is nothing more important than prospective customers. While spending time and money assembling your shop and equipment, you should devote some time every week to cold calls (visits) and prospecting for potential customers. I have found the shop door to be just as promising as the front entrance, but get in front of a responsible person and introduce yourself. Your product is, in fact, you, so make yourself evident in your first face-to-face. Explain what your capabilities are, what you would be willing to tackle, and try to leave the customer with a positive impression of you and your intentions. Leave a card or something that contains your contact information. Use every daily personal contact to spread the word and ask for business. Get ready for 18 hour work days. Don't be surprised if your employer is less than thrilled. It may be very slim for start-up, but it only takes a handful of small and a couple large customers to get going. Oh yes, be very careful about your collections. A customer is only as good as his payment habits. Good Luck, and Regards, Clark

Heavey Metal · Oct 31, 2012

No radio or dogs in the shop either.

alphonso said:
I have to disagree with that statement. You can run more than one manual machine at a time. I can have two lathes, a knee mill, tracer lathe and VTL making chips at the same time. Been doing that for 35+ years. Just have think about each job to figure out how to sequence the machines. I won't answer the phone when all this is happening.

I will admit that we don't do it as much since we got CNC equipment.

Making a living with manual machines

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