Management Fads, SPC, TQM, 5S, Lean.... - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 146
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arizona
    Posts
    4,408
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    17850
    Likes (Received)
    4111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    5S is the stupidest thing I have seen yet in manufacturing. Period. There is absolutely no logic. None. At least not the way I have seen it applied.
    I'm sure there has to be at least some redeeming qualities to 5S.

  2. Likes wheelieking71 liked this post
  3. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    83
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    79
    Likes (Received)
    166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    5S is the stupidest thing I have seen yet in manufacturing. Period. There is absolutely no logic. None. At least not the way I have seen it applied.
    I disagree, 5S is probably one of the best things I have took from my employment at "big corporations". I don't know how you have seen it applied, but I have seen it totally transform a shop. This is coming from someone who absolutely hates corporate jargon. It seemed for a while at the place I used to work, they would come up with something different twice a year. The management would get all excited, then have meetings and tell us we are now going to do "x" then run around for a while, then it would die off after a few months. 5s actually stuck and it made sense to me.


  4. Likes thesidetalker, Bobw, Joe788, Ibuildtanks liked this post
  5. #23
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wyoming
    Posts
    3,018
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6590
    Likes (Received)
    4640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    ...little things like a broom location marked out saves wasting time finding where a broom is kept all the time.
    I don't know as it needs to be marked out but in a ten-man shop finding a broom really shouldn't be a problem unless you have prima donnas unaccustomed to using one! In which case somebody needs a talk...

    Bolt a broom-handle clip to every machining center for small brooms; for push brooms build a rack, paint it safety yellow. Maybe a tad extreme but every shop has different needs. Your point about Alien wrenches sort of makes the case for people having personal tools, at least simple ones. To avoid running short of certain common sizes like the 5/64, 3/32 and 5/32 used on turning toolholders, we started buying those in bulk. That's a lot cheaper than sets. I know--way too simple an approach to justify a consulting fee but I'll gladly send an invoice to whoever wants one. However, you still have to hold hands in a circle and sing the company song...

    5S is a new name for common sense shop management. Those are all things you should be doing anyway.

  6. Likes Bobw, MK Proto liked this post
  7. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Peoples Republic of Minnesota
    Posts
    2,053
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3246
    Likes (Received)
    2503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    I don't know as it needs to be marked out but in a ten-man shop finding a broom really shouldn't be a problem unless you have prima donnas unaccustomed to using one! In which case somebody needs a talk...

    Bolt a broom-handle clip to every machining center for small brooms; for push brooms build a rack, paint it safety yellow. Maybe a tad extreme but every shop has different needs. Your point about Alien wrenches sort of makes the case for people having personal tools, at least simple ones. To avoid running short of certain common sizes like the 5/64, 3/32 and 5/32 used on turning toolholders, we started buying those in bulk. That's a lot cheaper than sets. I know--way too simple an approach to justify a consulting fee but I'll gladly send an invoice to whoever wants one. However, you still have to hold hands in a circle and sing the company song...

    5S is a new name for common sense shop management. Those are all things you should be doing anyway.
    I agree with your statement about it being a new name for common sense management......and it being mostly about what should be getting done anyways. Speaking to a mid size and larger shop (I know that was not the original question) "common sense and what should be getting done anyways" is one of the absolute toughest things to make happen. If anyone thinks hiring 10 decent machinist' who actually know a little something about the trade and will show up to work sober, on time, every day is difficult........try hiring 150 of them. Then try dealing with the fact that they are being hired by someone who really doesnt know what it takes to get a product out the door lol. Now take those 150 machinist' who ALL....EVERY ONE OF THEM.....thinks they know best where a broom belongs, or the most convenient place to store (name ANY item). 5s or something similar is an absolute rquirement while trying to herd cats....lol

  8. Likes Jashley73, Oldwrench, Mike1974, 9100 liked this post
  9. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    4,677
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5500
    Likes (Received)
    5732

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lastrada View Post
    I disagree, 5S is probably one of the best things I have took from my employment at "big corporations". I don't know how you have seen it applied, but I have seen it totally transform a shop. This is coming from someone who absolutely hates corporate jargon. It seemed for a while at the place I used to work, they would come up with something different twice a year. The management would get all excited, then have meetings and tell us we are now going to do "x" then run around for a while, then it would die off after a few months. 5s actually stuck and it made sense to me.
    I have seen it waste millions of dollars in no less than 3 different shops.
    I am all for cleanliness, and organization. But throwing things in dumpsters just because its cluttering the shop is plain ignorant.
    And you are pretty much the first person I have ever seen say "5S makes sense".

  10. Likes tdmidget, R.A.M., motion guru liked this post
  11. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    8,536
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2275

    Default

    5S is just trying to bring order to chaos. when you have 100 people in a shop each might leave items in many places if they do not care where they leave stuff. so you can easily have items in hundreds of possible locations taking time to find.
    .
    basically 5S is a type of discipline same as measuring parts and holding a tolerance even if it means more work. keeping a shop clean and organized in the long run is a investment that will pay off.
    .
    5S does not mean throwing stuff out but it does mean keeping stuff you use often organized and that often means keeping stuff you are not going to need for many years from taking up valuable space. like having a $10,000 garage filled with junk maybe worth even if a few thousand dollars but then you cannot get a car in the garage which is the whole point in having a garage. some people are missing the big picture. people who are hoarders of junk basically have a problem even if they refuse to admit to the problem. a lot of old people are hoarders with houses full of junk. when they die, their children often spend weeks cleaning all the junk (throwing 90% out in the trash)
    ...... 5S used to be called spring cleaning and other names

  12. Likes Oldwrench liked this post
  13. #27
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Mid-Iowa, USA
    Posts
    3,558
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3455
    Likes (Received)
    2049

    Default

    5S (or 6S as we have... I don't remember the 6th one which might tell you how well it works) makes sense in most applications on paper, but once you start seeing labels like "Pen Cup" and "Hydration Devices" because someone doesn't like having their soda/water bottle tossed out by the cleaning lady it's out of control.

    Sure we have labels for all the end mill locations in the Lista cabinet, except they aren't in any logical order (like size either ascending or descending), and "1/4" Special End Mills" really just means 3-flute because they haven't been changed since someone started ordering them.

    It'd be nice to have some standards too, but apparently "to fit" is a standard we are forced to use constantly since there is no official size for some countersinks and we have to check with a lugnut.

    Basically implementation is everything. 5S can definitely be implemented poorly while making management feel good about themselves.

  14. Likes Mike1974 liked this post
  15. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Peoples Republic of Minnesota
    Posts
    2,053
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3246
    Likes (Received)
    2503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    I have seen it waste millions of dollars in no less than 3 different shops.
    I am all for cleanliness, and organization. But throwing things in dumpsters just because its cluttering the shop is plain ignorant.
    And you are pretty much the first person I have ever seen say "5S makes sense".
    One thing we found was that we would come across something that had not been used in years.....but was important / valuable.....but was also undocumented, and unmarked. It made us make a decision...#1 Mark it, name it, categorize it and store it for later use....or #2 If it isnt important enough to at least document it....then shit can it.

    Or my absolute favorite was a fixture that we had used in 1977 .....1977.....for a part that was obsoleted in 1980.....the guy who used the fixture in 1977 was pissed that it got thrown out. It was basically a fixture for a GD buggy whip.....but because he had been involved with it he didnt want to see it go. I finally told him if he liked it so much.....take it home and mount it to the wall of his garage and the day we need it....we will buy it from him. Still havent needed to make an offer on it....lol

  16. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    83
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    79
    Likes (Received)
    166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    I have seen it waste millions of dollars in no less than 3 different shops.
    I am all for cleanliness, and organization. But throwing things in dumpsters just because its cluttering the shop is plain ignorant.
    And you are pretty much the first person I have ever seen say "5S makes sense".
    If you've seen it waste millions of dollars then somebody was definitely doing it wrong. And it's not just throwing things out either. Do we really need 2 tons of spare cavities and cores for a mold that got decommissioned and scrapped 7 years ago? Do we need 200 horizontal milling cutters when we got rid of that mill in 1980? It's things like that is what I am talking about. Then comes the organization and labeling. I hated spending 20 minutes walking around the shop, checking every cabinet and drawer for toe clamps so I could set something up. After you get a baseline of where everything goes,and the initial cleaning up. it's a cake-walk to keep it that way.

  17. Likes Bobw, PDW, Jashley73, Oldwrench liked this post
  18. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    862
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    743

    Default

    This is the first time I've heard the 5S term. I notice that is is what my dad taught me growing up in the family business so maybe it's like the wall color, so familiar You don't remember it. I've had IS9000 training, and TQM training too. Mostly the problem is a lot more fundamental. My dad was huge on "a place for everything and everything in its place." He taught this stuff. We had discussions not about where will it fit, but more along the lines of how often do we use it? I am having this discussion with our shop manager right now. Perfect example. He put up a rack on the back wall to hang the large mechanics wrenches, pipe wrenches etc. Makes sense, we have them because occasionally we have big flanges. However he didn't like screwdrivers lying in holders in a drawer in the rollaway tool box,so he made a rack for them on the back wall along side the big wrenches. Now ask yourself two simple questions. How often do you use a screwdriver? Why do you have a rollaway? The answer I come up with is I use screwdrivers a lot, and the rollaway is to bring all the commonly used tools close to the task at hand. At my last job I was shop manager for a short time. The first couple of days I moved the fastener bins off the 12 ft high mezzanine where it had resided for fifteen years, next to the assembly area where they put stuff together. At the end of the week a mechanic observed that for the first time he wasn't exhausted at the end of the week! I'd like to say this was an unusual situation. But a few jobs back I did exactly the same thing in another plant where the parts were located on the other side of the machine shop for 18 years!

    Now I was actaully trained to look at the process this way. Who does this kind of training? MBAs? Damn that is funny!

    Right now the shop manager is angry at me. He had a large assortment of Cat 40 tool holders in a makeshift tool rack he cobbled together. It held about 20 and we have about 40, the rest were lying in bins in different places. Obvious you won't use them, you don't even know what you have. So I got a nice big piece of 1-1/2 thick poly cheap and told him to make a proper tool holder and put it up on the wall. He said that was a stupid idea. He might be right, but six months has gone by without a solution. So I machined it up on my own time and had the shop boy put it up next to the machine. 44 pockets each one numbered. Machine and CAM both handle upwards of 100 tool offsets. So we are going to identify all those tools that can be set and remain set, put the offsets in CAM and the machine and save a lot of set up time. This includes, edge finders, center finders, insert tools that for our work are completely repeatable when the inserts change, the engraving tool, the 5/8 spot drill, and the small number of two and four flute endmills that do the bulk of our work. We then have a nice assortment of holders that can set up for the specials. I am getting pushback on this!

    I also made another one that has been deemed completely stupid. A board that holds morse taper drills from 3/8 to 1-1/4" by 64s, with every hole the drill size and the size engraved next to the hole. Another set of holes hold 1/8" to 1" end mills, and another set holds multiple taps and multiple tap drills in sizes from 4-40 to 3/4-13. I got it mounted above and behind the lathe, accesible and out of the way. Completely stupid right? WE don't yet have every size of drill. But at a glance I can tell you if we do or not. Not to mention I got a great deal on a Black Diamond drill sharpener that goes up to 3/4". Am I a rotten bastard or what?

  19. Likes Atomkinder, Bobw, lastrada liked this post
  20. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    4,677
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5500
    Likes (Received)
    5732

    Default

    Here is what I have seen:

    Large trash containers full of perfectly good LISTA cabinets. That were crushed so they could not be salvaged.
    Literally tons of NEW carbide tooling. In the dumpster.
    Tooling for legacy parts that are not obsolete. Again, sitting in piles at the local scrap yard.

    Like I said, nothing wrong with a clean organized shop. But, when you go in to a large shop, and give corporate a 5S hand-book.
    Get ready for some ignorant shit to go down.

  21. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Ontario
    Posts
    220
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    106
    Likes (Received)
    91

    Default OCD vs The horder

    Not calling anyone a packrat.
    But its like fire vs water when you take a Neat freak with a 5s book and a pack rat machinist. The neat freak expects the engine room of the starship enterprise. The pack rat is perfectly happy tripping over that offcut 3 inch diameter stainless from 89.
    Sorting the bolts in the random bolt bin rubs the freaks tickle spot. Knowing where to find that 3/8 inch grade "8" bolt from Princess auto stashed away in that cup is like a warm blanket for the pack rat.
    Speaking from small shops, if you cannot ask someone or find yourself in 15 mins. You may need to find your inner freak to fix that situation. It is just how much time do you want to take away from making money to think about sorting out your 35 cent bolts is really up to you.

  22. #33
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wyoming
    Posts
    3,018
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6590
    Likes (Received)
    4640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Large trash containers full of perfectly good LISTA cabinets. That were crushed so they could not be salvaged.
    That attitude is strictly large company. The last thing they want is for some go-getter to use their discards to compete with them. That's why surplus machine tools are deliberately set out to rust. Except for government-owned machine tools, which are set out to rust and then offered for sale...

  23. Likes Bobw, KC130Loadie liked this post
  24. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Ontario
    Posts
    286
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    142
    Likes (Received)
    165

    Default

    I think this thread is splitting into two neat groups: those who have seen one of these programs work out, and those who have seen rampant stupidity flying the banner of these various programs/processes/systems/fads. I think the main separator between the observed outcomes is the level of critical thinking of the leaders, and the level of involvement of the people who will use the "system". If you find yourself in a 5S project and someone leading it says everything older than X is gone, the writing is on the wall. Park your truck near the dumpster because some good stuff is heading out the door. If it is done in consultation with the people who know what the stuff is, it could go well and be an improvement.

    I'm pretty sure Oldwrench is an example of 5S done well. He doesn't call it 5S the program, but across a number of mentions of his shop, he is living 5S done right. The example of using only small garbage cans vs. 55 gallon cans so that they never get too full for someone to want to empty. Placing the replacement liner bags at the collection point for the full bags, so that every time the garbage cans are cleaned out, it is super easy to do the right thing and put in a fresh bag. That is the kind of simple stuff that is often missing, and the reason 5S is a thing. While he is calling it common sense, my experience is that it isn't quite as common as it should be.

    The lack of critical thinking shows up in numerous cases where senior execs decide we will implement this great new program X, and it will save us millions. Something that seems to be trendy right now is to reduce the number of vendors that are used. I think the idea behind it is smart. I think the idea behind it is to not switch suppliers trying to save pennies, when the cost risk of a new vendor pretty much ensures that your non-recurring administrative/set-up/engineering/auditing/qualifying, etc activities will more than wipeout the supposed savings that are quoted up front. However, the way I have seen it implemented is that one local vendor is chosen as the consolidator, and they buy the very same products that used to be bought direct, and resell them with their mark-up. Poof 5 vendors "gone", spend is "consolidated", mission accomplished. But now you are paying more, and have a more complex administration, and is generally costing the company more, and the true number of vendors hasn't changed at all. Oops.

  25. Likes Oldwrench, Jashley73 liked this post
  26. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    South Carolina
    Posts
    335
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    52
    Likes (Received)
    183

    Default

    I saw all manner of these dog and pony shows for years. If by chance they were helpfull, the people implementing said program usually couldn't find his/her ass with both hands. Screwed the process up to a fair-the-well, and we ended up with situations pretty much like wheelieking is describing.....or much worse. If they couldn't find someone incompetent enough in-house to run the show they would find the best dumbass off the street for the job.....rant over!!

  27. Likes tdmidget liked this post
  28. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    South Carolina
    Posts
    335
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    52
    Likes (Received)
    183

    Default

    Have you heard this one:
    A shepherd was herding his flock in a remote pasture when suddenly a brand-new BMW advanced out of the dust clouds towards him. The driver, a young man in a Broni suit, Gucci shoes, Ray Bans and a YSL tie, leaned out the window and asked the shepherd, “If I tell you exactly how many sheep you have in your flock, will you give me one?” The shepherd looked at the man, obviously a yuppie, then looked at his flock and calmly answered “Sure”.
    The yuppie parks his car, whipped out his notebook and connected it to a cell phone, the surfed to a NASA page on the net, where he called up a GPS navigation system, scanned the area, then opened up a database and an Excel spreadsheet with complex formulas. He sent an email on his Blackberry and, after a few minutes, received a response. Finally, he printed up a 150-page report on his hi-tech miniature printer, turned to the shepherd and said, “You have exactly 1586 sheep.”
    “That’s correct, take one of the sheep.” Said the shepherd. He watched the young man select one of the animals and bundle it into his car. Then the shepherd says: “If I can tell you exactly what your business is, will you give me back my sheep?” “Ok, why not” answered the young man.
    “Clearly you are a Six Sigma Black Belt.” Said the shepherd. “That’s correct, but how did you guess that.” Said the yuppie
    “No guessing required,” answered the shepherd. “ You turned up here although nobody called you. You want to get paid for an answer I already knew, to a question I never asked, and you don’t know crap about my business. Now give me back my dog.”

  29. Likes JohnEvans, nofxz, Bobw, tdmidget, KilrB and 18 others liked this post
  30. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Peoples Republic of Minnesota
    Posts
    2,053
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3246
    Likes (Received)
    2503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lastrada View Post
    If you've seen it waste millions of dollars then somebody was definitely doing it wrong. And it's not just throwing things out either. Do we really need 2 tons of spare cavities and cores for a mold that got decommissioned and scrapped 7 years ago? Do we need 200 horizontal milling cutters when we got rid of that mill in 1980? It's things like that is what I am talking about. Then comes the organization and labeling. I hated spending 20 minutes walking around the shop, checking every cabinet and drawer for toe clamps so I could set something up. After you get a baseline of where everything goes,and the initial cleaning up. it's a cake-walk to keep it that way.
    Just as bad....maybe worse......was walking around the shop for 30 minutes looking for a 3/8" endmill when 2 days ago you saw about 15 of them come through recieving....but no one knows where they are.......everyone said ...yeah, i saw them too...not sure where they went though.

  31. Likes lastrada, Oldwrench liked this post
  32. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    645
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    126
    Likes (Received)
    227

    Default

    I have lived both sides of this; formerly as a "Lean" consultant and presently as an engineering manager in a job shop. Here's the "IME's" (in my experiences):

    1. Lean is what you make of it. If you just do some basic 5S that's all you're going to get. If you sit back and say it "won't work here" because of any number of excuses (I've heard them all), then you're 100% right; it won't. The irony is that most of the excuses of why it won't work are exactly why you need it. You need it in a 100% custom shop because if you don't then you revert to what most do and that is to work on this job until you can't and then on that job until you can't and then on another job until you can't (waiting for materials, info from customer, a special tool, etc.). Finally one gets out and you get another in. Now, if you have a one-off shop and don't have to skip around on jobs then maybe you're already doing lean at some level (even if you think you're not). Lean works, it definitely works, it's just like any other collection of tools: you have to know how and when to apply and use them. Things can definitely go wrong when the owner/manager doesn't understand and listens to a consultant who is more interested in selling a package of services that he thinks will work but, in the end, mostly work around how he wants to make money or is selling just the part that he knows.

    2. Things like ISO or other QMS systems are a whole other issue. Have a basic QMS is a very good idea and, done properly, will work just fine (help you avoid defects but take corrective action when you do have them). It takes some discipline that management has to be committed to. The absolutely worst situation is where a shop "adopts" (more correctly "buys"), a certification that is poorly implemented and mostly due to a new customer's requirement or management thinking that it will sell more stuff if it has the cert hanging in the lobby and displayed on the home page of the website. It's a damn good way for consultants to make money though (for the record, I didn't do QMS except at a very basic level).

    Finally, a case study. Two shops, one a client and one my present employer, both did tool management systems (i.e. 5S) where each tool was given a permanent storage location. Tools are called out on a BOM that is database driven and calls out which tools to use. I can't begin to tell you how much time this saves when employees know IMMEDIATELY where to find and put away a tool. The first shop used mostly your generic end mills, drills, reamers, inserts, etc. It was a blast finding out that they actually have a lifetime supply of common endmills after they gathered up all the lose ones around the shop. They were shocked. A quick glance is all it took to see what they were low on. The second shop used special tools that all looked alike but were hard to find which one to use (had to measure). Cut down on a lot of search time.

    I am actually developing a new "alternative" system to lean (mostly the same goals, different implementation and tool strategy) that is aimed at small-medium private shops of all types (OEM, job shop, pure service, etc.) My goal is to make it so simple and effective that, if you can't understand it and implement it by yourself (no need for outside consultants) then you don't deserve to be in business. The present systems are too consultant driven (yes, formerly guilty as charge) and borderline complicated to really understand what you're trying to achieve (hence the needs for consultants).

    The Dude

  33. Likes Bobw, Jashley73, tjd10684, 9100 liked this post
  34. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    4,101
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3814
    Likes (Received)
    3654

    Default

    My view of this kind of thing comes more from a manufacturing vs a shop background.

    Many of the modern ideas for improving quality and efficiency have some real merit but that merit can't be realized if the wrong people implement them. Too many people with management titles seem to have no real sense of how to manage something. I have worked with people who would have trouble organizing lunch for 5 people. That type tends to rigidly apply whatever the latest fad is without regard for common sense.

    The basic principles of 5S make sense if applied in a reasonable manner. For example, a way to prevent an employee's water bottle from being thrown out by a cleaning crew is to establish "safe" areas where such stuff can be left at the end of the day. An area about the size of a cafeteria tray can be declared off limits to all but that employee. Anything there after he leaves is not to be touched, unlabelled or not. If he leaves that kind of stuff elsewhere, tough shit.

  35. Likes Bobw, Jashley73 liked this post
  36. #40
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wyoming
    Posts
    3,018
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6590
    Likes (Received)
    4640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by adamm View Post
    ...While he is calling it common sense, my experience is that it isn't quite as common as it should be
    Heh, heh. You may not be the first guy to make that observation.

    But to look at it from another direction: if you're a job shop--which I'm not, thank God--inefficiency on the part of your competitors gives you an advantage. Logically, therefore, you should NOT encourage any widespread implementation of common sense outside your own premises.

    A toast from the Napoleonic era, as valid today as ever: "Confusion to the enemy!"

  37. Likes adamm liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •