Management Needs to Look in a Mirror

AJT · Feb 5, 2019

We are a growing company of 30+ employees, currently our managers, four of them, sit down every Friday morning for a "production meeting". Which I am told consists of making sure they are on track to meet deadlines..... and that is it.

That is the extent of collaboration in our company. The other 4.95 days everyone, managers and their subordinates exist in their bubble, undisturbed unless a customer isn't happy. The problem is the managers fill their time doing tasks that should be delegated out, anything from finding a piece of drop so a machinist has material, to sitting down with a CAD operator to make sure their drawing isn't missing dimensions. All this is taking away from their actual managerial duties, that workers are not responsible for nor have the power to execute.

I am not considered a manager, but I oversee all of our CAD work (not CAD workers), so I'm responsible for their work but not their daily activities, so I couldn't reprimand someone for playing on their phone all day despite constantly witnessing it. Is there a way for me to explain to some manager's that their daily activities are causing them to be out of touch with problems that are existing, that only they can solve if they stopped filling their day with tasks they should be delegating out?

I apologize for the essay, as this is a drop in the bucket compared to what runs in my head after 5 years here.

hanermo · Feb 5, 2019

Management is always responsible for everything.
This does NOT mean they are short-sighted, dumb, or incompetent.

In the EU, I would go to talk to the management.

If I myself wanted to get into management, I would go talk to the owners with documentary evidence, suggestions for fixing it, timelines, costs.
Typically, owners would say fine - you have a proposed budget of xx, do it for that and let me know in x weeks.

Never ever go and cry about issues you don´t have some paper on.
It is not a court of law, csi type deal.
Any work orders/shipping slips, all are valid.

If you wanna fix it - you are a part of management.
Should You not get pay and responsibilities to go with it ?

Don´t worry about who did not do their work.
They will sort it out.

Oldwrench · Feb 5, 2019

Five years watching co-workers play on their phones and you're still there? In a 30-person organization, that sounds like an established culture that neither you nor anybody else is going to change. Unless you're getting enough money to worry about it, it might be time to move on.

Also—if it really is a growing company (even considering the conditions you mention) the owners might be aware of the problems but plan to sell out while the numbers still trend upward, leaving the buyers to sort out the deadwood. Leave before that happens.

Larry Dickman · Feb 5, 2019

There's an easy fix. Quit. Start your own shop. Then you can run it anyway you like.

(that's what I did :dunce:

))

AJT · Feb 6, 2019

I guess I should've stated that this is the first shop I've worked at, and that I'm only 23. So I am a few years off (a decade? :confused:

), financially and experience-wise, from starting my own gig, After working here, my outlook for working for others is less than positive, because if other shops are anything like this one, I can't believe more people don't drop dead from stress induced heart attacks in this industry.

snowman · Feb 6, 2019

AJT said:
The problem is the managers fill their time doing tasks that should be delegated out, anything from finding a piece of drop so a machinist has material, to sitting down with a CAD operator to make sure their drawing isn't missing dimensions. All this is taking away from their actual managerial duties, that workers are not responsible for nor have the power to execute.

I've had one manager that would do stuff like that instead of delegating. They were far and above the best manager I ever had.

Stirling · Feb 6, 2019

Another consideration is tjey too don't have the authority to make change?

I feel you described my last management job.
A well to do and huge potential repair shop. Machinists, millwrights, electricians...
I took the service manager job overseeing all the jobs and field work, plus any pet project jobs. Dealing with customers needs.... busy gig with 14 technicians and no foreman for support. But I digress
Workers that had lacklustre efforts, fooled around and where generally unproductive. But the owner of the company continually intervened whenever even a small change was made.
If you as much as had a gentle talking to about something they would go cry to him and I'd get yelled at.
Management is not allways what it looks like.

Needless to say I no longer work for him.

Oldwrench · Feb 6, 2019

AJT said:
I guess I should've stated that this is the first shop I've worked at, and that I'm only 23. So I am a few years off (a decade? ), financially and experience-wise, from starting my own gig, After working here, my outlook for working for others is less than positive, because if other shops are anything like this one, I can't believe more people don't drop dead from stress induced heart attacks in this industry.

AJT, you have the right idea. The best boss I ever had actually encouraged me to job-jump while I was young so I could gain experience. Unless you are financially trapped in your current job, you should move around and operate every kind of machine you can.

Other threads have dealt at length with the tribulations of being your own boss, so there's no need to go into that here. But if you are into playing the long game there's no substitute for being able to get things done how you want, and knowing you can't be fired...

D Dubeau · Feb 6, 2019

1st point, You can bring up as many different issues along with the solutions to them (you are offering solutions right?) as you want until you are blue in the face, but unless somebody wants to change, they won't. 2nd point. People don't change.

Most people just want to come in, do as little as possible and go home. The people who are driven to do better, be more efficient and constantly improve are the ones who get driven into self employment because it gets tiresome constantly banging your head against a wall trying to get somebody else to change their ways. There is only so much you can do unless your name is on the sign out front. Eventually you realize nobody else really cares, and it's just easier to go with the flow like everyone else and carry on with your day. It can be bad enough in some small companies, but gets worse as they get bigger and ownership is even more disconnected with management. Throw some family in the mix, and all bets are off. Best of luck.

AJT · Feb 6, 2019

snowman said:
I've had one manager that would do stuff like that instead of delegating. They were far and above the best manager I ever had.

I acknowledge to a certain extent that is helpful. But in this case they are ignoring issues that ONLY they can solve like disagreements between CAD operator and machinists, and it is becoming detrimental overall. To what Oldwrench said, where there is an established relaxed culture that has now resulted in slackers not worrying about losing their jobs, and managers telling the hard workers to "work a littler harder" because telling a hard worker to work a little harder is easier than trying to get a lazy guy to do work(and keep working after they walk away).

Fal Grunt · Feb 6, 2019

I would suggest a slightly different route.

If you think this company has potential, and it is a company you want to stay at, then I would tell you to sit down with upper management, the owner, all the above. Ask them what their plan for you is, ask them your career path over the next decade, ask if there are areas for improvement for you, areas of opportunity, and see where the conversation goes. In the course of the discussion, you need to bring up that you see areas of improvement within the company, you feel that you are a valuable asset and are able to contribute more to the company. Don't be arrogant about it, just ask questions.

This will tell you whether you have a future at the company or not.

AJT · Feb 6, 2019

D Dubeau said:
1st point, You can bring up as many different issues along with the solutions to them (you are offering solutions right?) as you want until you are blue in the face, but unless somebody wants to change, they won't. 2nd point. People don't change.

Whats worse is when I come to them with solutions, the managers agree with me, and then start down the, "Well if we had more time in the day...."

And you nailed it right on the head, owner(s) disconnected, it's a family business where managers are immediate family to the owner. I am glad that you guys are echoing most of what I am thinking, I was beginning to get Stockholm Syndrome being that this is the only shop I have worked for.

Pathogen · Feb 6, 2019

Best advice I can offer is do your time, piss on everyone else including the company, cash your check and when the day is over don't think about it for a second. They surely do the same for you. This is America baby

CarlBoyd · Feb 6, 2019

AJT said:
I'm responsible for their work but not their daily activities

I suggest you find another job.

CarlBoyd

Yan Wo · Feb 6, 2019

Pathogen said:
Best advice I can offer is do your time, piss on everyone else including the company, cash your check and when the day is over don't think about it for a second. They surely do the same for you. This is America baby

I agree with you in principle, but I am unable to do it.

toolsteel · Feb 6, 2019

AJT said:
.................I am not considered a manager.....................

Yet at 23 years old, 5 years in the company. You feel qualified to tell management what they should be spending their day doing......
Sounds like alot of people I have met. Never done it......but more than qualified to tell others how to do it.
I suppose if you draw from your vast experience....23 years old right?....having been in so many different industries, working with so many different people with many different talents I am sure you could straighten it right out. You did say the company was growing right?...
Methinks you may need to look in a mirror

IWUP · Feb 6, 2019

AJT said:
where there is an established relaxed culture that has now resulted in slackers not worrying about losing their jobs, and managers telling the hard workers to "work a littler harder" because telling a hard worker to work a little harder is easier than trying to get a lazy guy to do work(and keep working after they walk away).

This happens in every industry, it's unfortunate but reality

Guest · Feb 6, 2019

It also could be a case of the business turning a nice healthy profit in spite of itself. They feel changes aren't necessary.

Mcgyver · Feb 6, 2019

I know in my business, about the same size, there are lots and lots of places you could look and comment 'man that is poorly run'. I'm aware of some, probably not of others. Its the nature of a small business. If I was say Boeing i'd deep expertise and teams in every functional area such that every possible thing was being thought of and addressed by someone. Maybe not perfect, but little would carry on entirely unaddressed.

I've the education, training, ability and interest in making it perfect, why then isn't it so? 500 things a week to do and 250 get done. Noticing every cob web in the dark corners that isn't yet a priority doesn't accomplish much as taking action takes 500 to 600 and still only 250 get done. You have to prioritize and plan and try to get just a bit better all the time. If I had 200 employees I'd have a VP of Sales, Finance, Purchasing, IT, Marketing, Safety Safety and Planning, Maintenance, Production Planning....until then it all gets handled less than perfectly by a few of us with never enough time to do it all.

AJT · Feb 6, 2019

toolsteel said:
Yet at 23 years old, 5 years in the company. You feel qualified to tell management what they should be spending their day doing......

I suppose if you draw from your vast experience....23 years old right?

See this is the biggest reason I don't like using this website, people like you who read "23 years old, 5 years experience." stop, and immediately write me off as a dumb kid. I see a consistent problem in the company, lazy employees are OBJECTIVELY a problem, I'm not going to a manager and saying, "Bill chews his gum loud, make it stop." I'm suggesting that they delegate the easy tasks that floor guys can handle without holding their hand, and focus on tasks they alone are suppose to take care of.

I'm not that air headed young kid who thinks he has all the answers (why I'm on this website), and I do take great offense when people are quick to write off young kids with a new perspective, that is how you end up with old management who are out of touch with the ever advancing world we live in.

Management Needs to Look in a Mirror

Plastic

Titanium

Titanium

Titanium

Plastic

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Titanium

Hot Rolled

Plastic

Titanium

Plastic

Hot Rolled

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Titanium

Aluminum

Guest

Guest

Diamond

Plastic

Similar threads