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    Default Maximum wages

    We are looking to fill a couple of positions here at work. I am training with my boss who will be retiring this year. While reviewing some resumes today we got into a discussion about pay scales and wages. My question is this; If a job carries with it a given pay scale, let's say $20-$30 per hour, at what point do you as an owner stop giving raises without giving more responsibility? Meaning after years of getting $1.00/hr increases does an employer stop giving a raise? Or do you just caveat the raise with here are mor responsibilities to go with the raise.

    Thanks for learning me folks.

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    I consider that there are two parts to the raise. The first reflects inflation and the second any increased value the employee is delivering to the company. If inflation is 2%, the employee might get 2% just to stay even. If they are more valuable because they are more experienced and know more about the work being done in the shop or have improved their skills, they would get a raise to reflect this on top of the 2% for inflation. All of this is dependent upon how well the business is doing also.

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    Exactly what AndyF said. We do the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DyanamicEDM View Post
    We are looking to fill a couple of positions here at work. I am training with my boss who will be retiring this year. While reviewing some resumes today we got into a discussion about pay scales and wages. My question is this; If a job carries with it a given pay scale, let's say $20-$30 per hour, at what point do you as an owner stop giving raises without giving more responsibility? Meaning after years of getting $1.00/hr increases does an employer stop giving a raise? Or do you just caveat the raise with here are mor responsibilities to go with the raise.

    Thanks for learning me folks.
    The part of your post that pretty much ties your hands is "If a job carries with it a given pay scale, let's say $20-$30 per hour,".

    If you have more than one employee then the only way you can justify it is by giving more responsibilty. IOW probably a new job title.

    Not the same thing but let's say you had a salesman that sold much more than could be expected. IOW a goldmine for the company. Do you just give him a raise or let his pay include a percentage of what he sells? Do nothing and you know he'll leave eventually.

    Maybe too simple but if he's worth more to the company than he gets paid then you have to figure out how to "bend" your rules.

    Many, many moons ago I worked at a company and really enjoyed it. Long story short but in my contract (all who work here have a contract) my wage should have been renegotiated after 6 months. Didn't happen and was told my contract was a mistake.

    I applied for another job and was offered 30% more than the job I had. I resigned but was immediately offered a 30% rise by the owner of the company I was working for. Too late and I quit. He could have kept me for less than the 30% if he'd only stood by the contract as I liked where I was. Also the place where I met my wife and she quit too after a while.

    Neither of us have regretted leaving but no doors were slammed.

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    Hmm. How'd my old boss end up in Denmark?

    The oldest lie in the world is "we'll start you at $x.x and bump you up to $y.y in a few months". No. Someday never comes. Start at $y.y or find something else.


    Also, this is one of the reasons why unions don't work. The union contract rewards time served. It does not reward you for working hard. In fact, it punishes you for working hard by preventing the company from rewarding hard work.
    Last edited by ewlsey; 01-04-2018 at 07:17 PM.

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    Communist countries set maximum wage limits......

    Oh Gordo...Paging Gordo.....

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    My non-union employer does not reward people for working hard. Fixed percentage pay raises for all. Most of the companies around here are the same. The most well paid people have a union job - railways, power company, government and breweries.

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    I'll echo what AndyF. There's a cost of living raise, usually around $0.30-$0.50 here. This is mainly used to offset the increases in employer provided medical insurance premiums.

    The other part is how much the employee contributes to the company. Some shop positions can be limited, but we encourage (& reward) productivity, versatility (being able to work in more than one area), and dependability. Eventually you learn all the jobs though. I've got one I'm trying to give a "foreman" title to simply to appease HR and justify giving him more money.

    In my old job it was common to "top out". This was at a much larger (non-union) shop. If you were a technician, you could only make a maximum of $18.55. This number only went up if there was a COLA to increased the maximum. Your only way for a raise was the COLA or to bid out to a different job (like an advanced technician job, topping out at $21.95). If you had worked there for more than say 10 years, even if you started at the bottom, you were probably topped out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DyanamicEDM View Post
    We are looking to fill a couple of positions here at work. I am training with my boss who will be retiring this year. While reviewing some resumes today we got into a discussion about pay scales and wages. My question is this; If a job carries with it a given pay scale, let's say $20-$30 per hour, at what point do you as an owner stop giving raises without giving more responsibility? Meaning after years of getting $1.00/hr increases does an employer stop giving a raise? Or do you just caveat the raise with here are mor responsibilities to go with the raise.

    Thanks for learning me folks.
    .
    supply and demand. employees leave when they can get better paying jobs at another company. also when you got nobody to easily fill a job position you pay more. if nobody can fill job position at any wage then thats a problem of no supply. often boss doesnt think employee is good enough but in reality there is nobody better at job position. sometimes to be appreciated you have to leave.
    .
    employees stop looking for jobs else where when there are none at other companies that pay more money to make it worth taking a chance at another company. why leave jobs for 0.10/hr more if you can get fired cause new boss is a nut job expecting miracles.
    .
    many jobs have hidden benefits. i had job at
    $27.70/hr and made $57,000 year no 401K match and next job made
    $23./hr but make $78,000 year with overtime and 401K match
    .
    i suspect at previous higher paying per hour job they knew with no overtime all year they needed a higher hourly rate to keep people
    .
    doesnt take a genius to realize the lower paying job making a lot more money at the end of the year. got to look at total pay including benefits. for example if company gives $900/yr for a health savings account to pay medical bills that still is $900 that a different company might give $0
    .
    i have seen where older employee asked for pay raise and boss said no you are at maximum pay. older employee just retired. boss ask's him come back for a month to train new guy. older employee says he will stay if he gets pay raise. boss says no so he goes back to being retired but he was nice enough to train new guy for 1 month at previous pay. the reality is when people are 62 to 67 many think should they retire this year ?? like think about it every day
    .
    older employee might have back pain, or other pains and never say anything. you can bet they think about retiring when they are in pain

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    As long as the employee is making the company 3x-5x over his pay, who cares ?

    Upper management beancounters need to understand this.

    Take the limits off, and reward productivity/creativity, and get out
    of the way.

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    there is no a person deserves more for hard work. ultimately pays is not given, its all about supply and demand
    .
    employer only pays enough to keep employees. if you can tolerate training new people every day or require people with many years experience from training that takes years, most companies pay enough so people are not randomly leaving jobs to work at other companies
    .
    Russians and Chinese had food shortages for over 50 years cause farmers do not grow extra when they dont get extra benefit like money for it. they were working bare minimum. when China allowed farmers who grew extra to keep the profits food production increased 400% by CIA estimates. doesnt take a genius to realize people do more when they are rewarded and do the bare minimum when there is no extra benefit
    .
    Communism rarely works cause why would anybody try harder if they see others doing less and getting the same benefits. it ends up being everybody doing bare minimum and that ends up effecting things like inventing new technology. why bother if you spend time and energy designing stuff and no reward for it

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    .

    many jobs have hidden benefits. i had job at
    $27.70/hr and made $57,000 year no 401K match and next job made
    $23./hr but make $78,000 year with overtime and 401K match
    .
    Why do you keep mentioning how much money you make? We do not care. Also why are you constantly in the management and shop owner threads? I do believe you have never been either.

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    Another thing to consider is that you as an employer are competing for employees. If other employers offer a higher wage ceiling or better benefits you may start losing employees that are being paid what they are "worth".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Why do you keep mentioning how much money you make? We do not care. Also why are you constantly in the management and shop owner threads? I do believe you have never been either.
    .
    .
    i mention pay cause some employers think they are being generous paying $18/hr and employee making maybe $40,000 yr. and often a person thinks they are well paid when if they get a different job they might make $20,000/yr more.
    .
    thats often why people dont leave cause they dont realize how much better off they would be to leave and get a better paying job at a different company
    .
    and often hear comments about cnc operators being not worth much from boss types and programmers. supply and demand always determines pay. if you do not pay as much as other companies are willing to pay then your maximum paid employees will leave for jobs at other companies
    .
    you dont have to be a boss to realize this. and your employees are thinking about this every pay day. every day i calculate when i will have $1,000,000 in retirement account. how old i will be. am i better off staying where i am now
    .....when retired will i have $110,000 yr in retirement funds (SS included) or more. calculate everything every day

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    .

    .....when retired will i have $110,000 yr in retirement funds (SS included) or more. calculate everything every day
    Yeah me too, so long as I only live one year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Booze Daily View Post
    Yeah me too, so long as I only live one year.
    .
    sure retire too old and not live for long to enjoy it.
    .
    and many get sick (cancer) or heart problems, etc. nobody wants to be retired in a wheel chair and forced to use oxygen to breath
    .
    knew a person fell on ice and broke his hip and never came back to work at 55, he was using a walker and in pain even sitting the rest of his life. no warning thats how fast your life can change in a instant

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    .
    you dont have to be a boss to realize this. and your employees are thinking about this every pay day. every day i calculate when i will have $1,000,000 in retirement account. how old i will be. am i better off staying where i am now
    .....when retired will i have $110,000 yr in retirement funds (SS included) or more. calculate everything every day
    I don't know how much the SS is, but if was just the investment.....you'd need a 11.1% return in "retirement level of safety" income investments. Not really happening today. With whatever the SS is taken out, what short of return do you expect on the $1MM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    I don't know how much the SS is, but if was just the investment.....you'd need a 11.1% return in "retirement level of safety" income investments. Not really happening today. With whatever the SS is taken out, what short of return do you expect on the $1MM
    .
    6% over inflation is what mutual funds typically return, SS and a separate monthly fixed annuity add even more to retirement (its called multiple sources of income)
    .
    always best to have a mix, different 401K accounts, monthly annuities, bank savings, SS, a mix is best. need to be able to handle a few accounts going bankrupt (or reduced payments ) or having a problem for years
    .
    worse thing you can do is have everything in one account and it goes bankrupt and then your retired with nothing saved

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    I'd like to know how you expect to get a 11.1% return in "retirement level of safety" income investments in the current world we live in
    My managed IRA beat 10% averaged over the last several years and I am not in anything aggressive. I don't think that's an unusual return. You can get pretty nervous when a statement shows stagnation or a loss in value, but the key is not to be stampeded into cashing out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    I don't know how much the SS is, but if was just the investment.....you'd need a 11.1% return in "retirement level of safety" income investments. Not really happening today. With whatever the SS is taken out, what short of return do you expect on the $1MM
    .
    SS is not a savings account and never has been and never runs out of money like some make out.
    .
    workers now ....pay in to retired people now every month. money in, money out redistributed from young to old every month
    .
    when i hear some say SS will run out or they put money into SS account thats not what it is and never has been. it was setup for older people with no savings have bare minimum to not starve. never designed to be comfortable just on SS
    .
    the age to be able to retire was never meant to be for many decades. typically it was for 65 year old who lived to 70 to not starve. takes a millisecond to figure out if people living to 80 or 90 that need to raise retirement age so younger people not paying for older people to not work for 2 or 3 decades
    .
    who says younger people need to pay money to the old to not work for 2 or 3 decades ?? that sounds like master and slave or peasant and king. forcing a class to work so others do not need to work


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