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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    ....And yet....somehow.....Salesmen can make unlimited money.
    For a very long time I worked eat what you kill (no base salary) sales and had several CEO-like years so far as income went. Those of us at the top made way more than the office manager or President. Sometimes people would challenge you how much you were making against how difficult it was - the attitude, "I mean wtf its sales". I'd offer them a job on the spot. Come on in tomorrow and meet the manager, I'll almost guarantee he'll give you a desk on my recommendation.

    Not once did someone accept the offer. Bunch o wind bags lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    For a very long time I worked eat what you kill (no base salary) sales and had several CEO-like years so far as income went. Those of us at the top made way more than the office manager or President. Sometimes people would challenge you how much you were making against how difficult it was - the attitude, "I mean wtf its sales". I'd offer them a job on the spot. Come on in tomorrow and meet the manager, I'll almost guarantee he'll give you a desk on my recommendation.

    Not once did someone accept the offer. Bunch o wind bags lol
    Yes, but somehow that guy on the shop floor is limited in his pay ?

    "Measured Day Rate" is what it's called.

    It took the place of piecework, basically you have to turn in 100%
    (or get fired) but anything over.....you don't get paid for.

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    I'm not in favour of limiting pay, otoh its tough to change the world. I sought and went into something for the very reason that the pay wasn't limited. The flip side was that you could also make zero, which when it came down to it, people chose the limited upside and limited downside path.

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    Max wage is about half or less of what it really should be for this line of skilled, stressful work.

    I've not seen shop rates go up much, nor part prices, many went down since I started.
    In my area max wage for this and most other trades is around $25/hr(Cad) for private sector(union/gov get a few dollars more at the top). Plenty with 20+yrs never reached max pay yet, its really whatever you're willing to work for... If I went back to work as a minion I'd probably be offered between $17-23hr to start at best even if I have 2 trades. Lets just say it ain't happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SND View Post
    Max wage is about half or less of what it really should be for this line of skilled, stressful work.
    agreed. A really good machinist or tool maker is more like a profession like say engineering compared to many (most?) other trades imo. its so much more cerebral. The pay rate is an embarrassment, but its supply and demand. You'd have thought it would start moving up, it looks like things with China has sort of reach equilibrium and there has to have been a reduction of new entrants into the field.
    Last edited by Mcgyver; 01-07-2018 at 07:50 PM.

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    In the end any job's compensation depends on what it can earn for the enterprise. What pushing buttons to make wide-tolerance widgets is worth depends on the widgets; production of fifty-cent widgets went to the third world long ago. That job might pay $23/hr—if the operator could run enough machines to earn 150% on those widgets, plus the machine payments. Hard to imagine though. I think you probably need a $150 widget price to justify that wage...not being entirely facetious, either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DyanamicEDM View Post
    We are looking to fill a couple of positions here at work. I am training with my boss who will be retiring this year. While reviewing some resumes today we got into a discussion about pay scales and wages. My question is this; If a job carries with it a given pay scale, let's say $20-$30 per hour, at what point do you as an owner stop giving raises without giving more responsibility? Meaning after years of getting $1.00/hr increases does an employer stop giving a raise? Or do you just caveat the raise with here are mor responsibilities to go with the raise.

    Thanks for learning me folks.
    Good question. I would think it depends on the individual you hire. Some people just want a paycheck while others enjoy what they do. Hire the right person (easier said than done) and the pieces will fall into place. I enjoy machining so it's not just about the money. There are other ways to reward someone for there work.

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    Money is the reason the company is there and money is the reason people go to work everyday. Don't fool yourself. Loyalty is bought and paid for. Pay your machinists well and you will be surprised what they will do for you. Be cheap and loss them off and be prepared for mediocre work.

    Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

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    The economy decides that and one need to keep up with knowing the going rate.. The going is when your best guys are thinking about going down the street for the better pay or benefits..

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    Quote Originally Posted by mindbent View Post
    Good question. I would think it depends on the individual you hire. Some people just want a paycheck while others enjoy what they do. Hire the right person (easier said than done) and the pieces will fall into place. I enjoy machining so it's not just about the money. There are other ways to reward someone for there work.
    Treat them like a human being..

    I worked in a place in my previous life (pre machinist).. The boss was awesome, he never dropped the ball.
    EVERYTHING I needed to do my job was there. The drama queens got fired, and the good ones stayed..
    He was very free with the "thanx" and "good job".. Systems were in place, SIMPLE systems, that made things
    worry free... The hardest part about DOING MY JOB was DOING MY JOB, and I had 5 people under me that I had
    to manage, while doing my job.

    It was a cake walk.. It wasn't even like working. There was never the "AWWW man, tomorrow is Monday"..
    Didn't matter, go in, do my job, which I enjoyed, and go home.. It was like a 3 year vacation. And it
    wasn't a vacation because it was EASY, it was a vacation because I didn't have to deal with very much
    bull shit. Things went wrong, and people called out leaving us short, other departments bitching, etc...
    But everybody worked together, everybody appreciated each other, the boss had our backs, and we didn't
    have to deal with excessive BULLSHIT..

    I could have easily made $3-5 more an hour by switching jobs.. I could have made $7-$10 an hour
    by taking a stupid community college course and changing jobs.. I didn't, I liked where I was,
    I was happy where I was.. The extra money wasn't worth it.

    I've also worked in a place (current life) where they could have paid me $100 an hour and I wouldn't
    have stayed... Get your ass chewed up one side and down the other because EVERYTHING is late...

    "What's late, we're twiddling our thumbs down in the shop because we got nothing to do.."

    SLAM! folder on the table "How come this job isn't done!!!, its due in 4 days"..

    "First I've seen it, did you order material yet?, Did you write a PO to the shop yet?"

    "No" & "No"

    "Then why are you yelling at me that its not done?"

    Rinse and repeat, over and over and over and over and over and over again...

    On the flip side.. Material shows up, "Hmmm what's that"... Go digging through
    files, find the file "Hmmm due in 3 days"... No work order to the shop, but
    fuck it, its due in 3 days.. Order tools on day one, run 'em on day 2, shipped
    out on the due date... PERFECT!!! I DID A GOOD JOB...

    NOPE!!! I got my ass chewed up one side and down the other, that job was going
    to be sent out to another shop... Not a fucking thank you for getting that job
    out, nothing, I got my ass chewed for doing a GOOD JOB, taking the initiative and
    getting the F'n job out on time, I got my ass chewed... I don't miss working there.

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  15. #51
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    Yup, takes a balance. More money will buy more tolerance for BS, and a nice working environment will compensate for a certain amount of underpay, but either one will only go so far.


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