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  1. #1
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    Default More industrial espionage from China

    U.S. Accuses Harvard Scientist of Concealing Chinese Funding - The New York Times

    Various people at MA universities giving tech or stealing secrets for China. Not our finest hours...

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    Freshman year should start with Ethics class, and how it revolves around pride and loyalty.


    -----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Freshman year should start with Ethics class, and how it revolves around pride and loyalty.


    -----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    I tink Mummy & Daddy should have done that a long time before they reach "secondary education".

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    I don't think today's kids, could survive that method of correction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Freshman year should start with Ethics class, and how it revolves around pride and loyalty.
    Why, Ox ? If you are a slimy cheating crook for Goldman, you start at $300,000 a year and get to rip off entire countries. (Search 'cum-ex fraud' for the latest.) Work in a shop and you'll be lucky to see $20/hr. If you buy American, you can watch all your favorite companies get eviscerated by finance thieves then ten years later hear how shitty they were anyhow, the Japanese are so wonderful. (Niigata ripped off Sundstrand for all their knowledge and experience in building large cnc mills, then shit on them) If you show loyalty to your customers, work weekends and holidays because they can't bother to plan ahead, nine times out of ten the first chance they get for a cheaper supplier, you're on the street.

    "Greed is Good", babe, and that's how this place works. Why teach something that is not practiced and will only hurt people ? Lie, cheat, and steal, that's the Amurrican Way ! Look at Bill Gates ! I got mine, Jack !

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    Straight out of the US corporate playbook......yankee companies been doing exactly this here for decades......let sucker foreign uni s and governments fund basic research ,ten years later its promising,so yank company lifts the entire research team with big pay offers,and patents the lot.....but even better ,yank company then sells the drug back to the sucker government for $100,000 a dose ,and orchestrates one of the pity campaigns they are so good at for swaying public opinion,to make sure sales are good..........but note the yankee companies dont fund research,they just steal it,so the Chinese are playing fair by US standards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Freshman year should start with Ethics class, and how it revolves around pride and loyalty.
    Ox
    It is for a MBA.
    People pay the big bucks to go to school here to get a serious paycheck so conflict in your head.
    It's the lure of easy money .....It's gotta very strong appeal.
    A trend of money above all that really took hold in the mid to late 80's and now those people are at the top of the pyramid.
    How much money in your pocket to sacrifice your ethics. 1 million, 10 million, 100 million?
    We would all like to think no amount but is this realistic?

    Not just a China thing.
    I stick to not paying off or participating in under the table in the auto world because it just was not right in my head .... it cost me so dearly to not play the game.
    Conscious clear, bank account empty or negative.
    You get to die clean but wonder if you should have traded your soul to the devil when putting food on the table, heating the house or basic medical is a problem.
    Bob

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  13. #8
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    Pay to play?
    not new eh?
    Welcome to the motor cities, I dont think we invented it?
    Gw

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Why, Ox ? If you are a slimy cheating crook for Goldman, you start at $300,000 a year and get to rip off entire countries. (Search 'cum-ex fraud' for the latest.) Work in a shop and you'll be lucky to see $20/hr. If you buy American, you can watch all your favorite companies get eviscerated by finance thieves then ten years later hear how shitty they were anyhow, the Japanese are so wonderful. (Niigata ripped off Sundstrand for all their knowledge and experience in building large cnc mills, then shit on them) If you show loyalty to your customers, work weekends and holidays because they can't bother to plan ahead, nine times out of ten the first chance they get for a cheaper supplier, you're on the street.

    "Greed is Good", babe, and that's how this place works. Why teach something that is not practiced and will only hurt people ? Lie, cheat, and steal, that's the Amurrican Way ! Look at Bill Gates ! I got mine, Jack !
    There is a song....That's not on u-toob...Don Henley "In the garden of allah"

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    I don't know if his motivation was greed, ideology, or a mix of both but a man in his position was certainly aware of the rules. He was receiving millions of dollars of Defense Department funding while also getting money from China's government.

    He was allegedly receiving $600,000 a year plus as much as $158,000 per year for living expenses and more than $1.5 million to build a lab in China. That he did not reveal this to U.S. investigators and made frequent trips to China it's virtually a certainty he took U.S. secrets with him.

    I'm glad this is finally being taken seriously and perhaps the bleed of U.S. innovations we've suffered for decades will finally slow.

    Vast Dragnet Targets Theft of Biomedical Secrets for China - The New York Times

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post

    I'm glad this is finally being taken seriously and perhaps the bleed of U.S. innovations we've suffered for decades will finally slow.
    Soft hearted libs will make sure a little jail time at most.

    Should be treated like the rosenbergs:
    Julius and Ethel Rosenberg - Wikipedia

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    Bring back public flogging. Followed by life in prison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Soft hearted libs will make sure a little jail time at most.

    Should be treated like the rosenbergs:
    Julius and Ethel Rosenberg - Wikipedia
    Not for stealing patentable biomedical research but the main goal should be to stop the theft of our technology. In the case of the Rosenbergs they passed nuclear secrets that could have cost millions of American lives.

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    Future politician

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    An inherent part of the Chinese business culture is to "cheat". They actually consider it a smart and savvy way to conduct business, they have no ethical conundrum about it whatsoever.

    And the fact that we have let the Chinese by with all kinds of cheating (currency manipulation, intellectual property theft, outright product forgery, subsidies, etc.) for over three decades (since they were allowed to join the WTO) has just emboldened the bastards.

    At least we now have a President with some balls big enough to stand up to them. Clinton, Bush, and Obama all would shit peach seeds every time they had to deal with China. (And part of their "fear" was they were beholden to mighty corporate America and their desire to do business with China at all costs.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    An inherent part of the Chinese business culture is to "cheat". They actually consider it a smart and savvy way to conduct business, they have no ethical conundrum about it whatsoever.

    And the fact that we have let the Chinese by with all kinds of cheating (currency manipulation, intellectual property theft, outright product forgery, subsidies, etc.) for almost two decades (since they were allowed to join the WTO) has just emboldened the bastards.

    At least we now have a President with some balls big enough to stand up to them. Clinton, Bush, and Obama all would shit peach seeds every time they had to deal with China. (And part of their "fear" was they were beholden to mighty corporate America and their desire to do business with China at all costs.)

    Fixed it fer yuh.



    ----------------------------

    China and the WTO
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    An inherent part of the Chinese business culture is to "cheat". They actually consider it a smart and savvy way to conduct business, they have no ethical conundrum about it whatsoever.

    And the fact that we have let the Chinese by with all kinds of cheating (currency manipulation, intellectual property theft, outright product forgery, subsidies, etc.) for over three decades (since they were allowed to join the WTO) has just emboldened the bastards.

    At least we now have a President with some balls big enough to stand up to them. Clinton, Bush, and Obama all would shit peach seeds every time they had to deal with China. (And part of their "fear" was they were beholden to mighty corporate America and their desire to do business with China at all costs.)
    Damn skippy...

    Charles

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    Everyone upset by ethical fail is I hope equally indignant at someone taking info and moving to the company down the street. THAT happens a lot and its just as wrong, same crime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnctoolcat View Post
    An inherent part of the Chinese business culture is to "cheat". They actually consider it a smart and savvy way to conduct business, they have no ethical conundrum about it whatsoever.
    ..
    You are very correct and they do not see it as cheating or immoral in any sense. More as a way to compete in a cut throat world.
    If there is an opening they will exploit it.

    Where were you in the 70s and 80's when Japan did the same to our machine tool industry?
    Did you see these teams in action at machine tool shows? Did it bother you?
    Now that IP theft is long forgotten and we have those imports on our floor making parts and we just love them.
    We justify this by saying big US companies were too slow or driven by bad CEOs. That is not the whole story but does makes us feel good.

    China is just behind the curve in time frame so the current bad player.
    It was done here inside the US in spades during our rise, Japan mastered it, and China is taking advantage of the new information world we now live in.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    I don't know if his motivation was greed, ideology, or a mix of both but a man in his position was certainly aware of the rules. He was receiving millions of dollars of Defense Department funding while also getting money from China's government.

    He was allegedly receiving $600,000 a year plus as much as $158,000 per year for living expenses and more than $1.5 million to build a lab in China. That he did not reveal this to U.S. investigators and made frequent trips to China it's virtually a certainty he took U.S. secrets with him.

    I'm glad this is finally being taken seriously and perhaps the bleed of U.S. innovations we've suffered for decades will finally slow.

    Vast Dragnet Targets Theft of Biomedical Secrets for China - The New York Times
    For someone that is supposed to be incredibly "Smart" he (Dr. Lieber) was incredibly stupid.

    Not really sure how he thought the DOD was not gonna connect the "Dots" on that + the FBI (given the "China thing" is number 1 thing on the FBI's to do list/ sh*t list. ).

    Eventually the specific (technical and IP) conflicts may come to light. Develop into a fairly landmark case but unfortunately the horse has already bolted the stable on much of all this.

    Seems the state department and FBI may seek to make an example of Dr. Lieber (it seems) and attempt to push back on all these kinds of practices.


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