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  1. #21
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    It would appear that very few of you lot posting on this thread have bothered to read the cited article. Senator McCarthy would be proud of you...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    It would appear that very few of you lot posting on this thread have bothered to read the cited article. Senator McCarthy would be proud of you...
    How can you see with that ALUMINUM pot on your head ?..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Freshman year should start with Ethics class, and how it revolves around pride and loyalty.


    -----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Well yes.

    Perfessor has "pride" what with achieving tenure and being all puffed up with his own pride.

    Loyalty...lot's of it there too. To the motherland of
    China.

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    With 80% of University "professors" identifying at Marxist Communists these days, I'm only surprised they're not doing it for free for "the cause".

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  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SND View Post
    With 80% of University "professors" identifying at Marxist Communists these days, I'm only surprised they're not doing it for free for "the cause".
    I know many professors from different universities, and your statement is abject nonsense. But thanks for playing, Skippy.

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  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    It would appear that very few of you lot posting on this thread have bothered to read the cited article. Senator McCarthy would be proud of you...
    All I want to know is, are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party ?

    Okay okay, you shamed me into burrowing past the firewall, and you are correct, that article is a total pile of shit. Reading between the lines, the guy got caught in a crossfire. He was (going to be) given a bunch of money to set up a research center in Wuhan, but Hahvad vehemently told him to keep their name out of it. So he did.

    And then the FBI accused him of "covering up" his upcoming association with Wuhan, which is what Hahvad told him to do. (Sounded like this was going to be a dream retirement, he's 60. And right now Wuhan would be the perfect place to be a medical researcher. Talk about convenient, just walk out the door ...)

    If this were the old days his lack of loyalty would mean something, but is there anyone here who has mostly US machine tools ? Yeah, I thought not. People who live in grass shacks shouldn't stow thrones.

    About "industrial espionage", that's fucking ignorant horseshit. Hahvahd is supposed to be a university, a center of learning. Universities and scientists share knowledge. They beat each other over the head about it, making sure no one is going off half-cocked. Do the guys at CERN refuse to talk to US physicists because it's "industrial secrets ! Intellectual property !" That'd be a really bad precedent. Worse for the US than anyone else because the US puts all its money into banking. Bankers don't bring much in the way of scientific advancements.

    Hahvad is not an industry. It's a fucking university. A school, dedicated to disseminating knowledge. If they want to sell their souls, then they should put it on the stationery - 'Hahvad, a Division of Bristol-Meyers'.

    In regards to the sanctimonious FBI mouthpiece and his droolings, let's just say the FBI is one of the biggest groups of incompetent assholes on the planet. They've never caught anyone who didn't get turned in by his neighbors or brother-in-law. Ever. Joseph Baloneypony can sit on a ten inch black rubber dildo. He is an ignorant, disgusting faggot who represents a witless organization that couldn't find its ass with both hands, but has no problems murdering people in their beds, harassing them for being on Tricky Dick's Mean People list, engaging in illegal wiretaps, and doing the bidding of mob figures (e.g. numbskull FBI agents caught bugging Dan Rowan's hotel room at the behest of Sam Giancana, the most ruthless Mafia boss ever. They couldn't even do that right.) Joseph "Dipshit" Bonavolonta can eat shit and die, and take the rest of the mouth-breathing FBI with him. And no, Jedgar did not capture Creepy Karpis. He was delayed changing into his best bra and panties in the patrol car. But he caught up with the rest in time to have his picture taken.

    You are correct, Mark, this article is garbage and the behavior of the US Goobermint even worse. Useless, ignorant pricks is what they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    I know many professors from different universities, and your statement is abject nonsense. But thanks for playing, Skippy.
    Must be private schools....try public universities with communistic unions.

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  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    If this were the old days his lack of loyalty would mean something, but is there anyone here who has mostly US machine tools ? Yeah, I thought not. People who live in grass shacks shouldn't stow thrones.

    I have a pair of Hardinge mills made in Taiwan.
    I have 3 transfer machines built in Kitchener, Ontario (that's just a few hours from me in Canada eh? So not sure that counts)

    Other than that - my stuff (so far) is Yank, but you are correct, that is getting MUCH harder to update that way currently.

    And - on that note, I would have bought Haas on those mills under normal conditions, but these machines came turn-key on a cpl of hot jobs that needed moved post-haste, so these are what I ended up with. And they are very good machines. Not so happy with the Siemens controls, but ...


    ------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Missed one:

    I have one Tornos - built in Switzerland.
    (I have at least one root (limb?) that came from Switzerland, so ...)


    Only Yank offering there is that Hardinge played in that market for a while around 2000, but they used Tsugami spindles as I was told.


    EDIT:

    At least 1 LNS barf eater @ Switzerland.


    ------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Last edited by Ox; 01-30-2020 at 11:51 AM.

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    experts are hired from all over the world. many Chinese scientist work for USA companies, many educated people born and educated in other countries live and work in the USA for USA companies.
    .
    what most companies do not like is people who not do ALL their work exclusively for one company, country, organization. most do not like or allow any scientist or engineer or consultant to be working for 2 or more companies.
    .
    that is a problem with consultants. do they also consult with others ? even Engineers have been fired for moonlighting or doing engineering for for other companies. most companies expect and demand a exclusive arrangement

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    All I want to know is, are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party ?
    Considering that the "communism" in China (and wherever else it allegedly is in the world) is in name only, does it matter?

    OK, I've worked for the "Big Two" in Cambridge, and yes, they're centers of learning and part of their mission is indeed the dissemination of knowledge. But not all, and not those parts of research that are specifically funded and that have constraints on publication of all or parts of the research topics.

    It ain't a wide-open commune - I don't remember having to tell everyone my bank information and passwords when I worked at the labs.

    The professor did not disclose his payments from the CN government, and did not register as a "foreign agent", as one is required to do if one wishes to stay within the law in this country. The Chinese folks also diverted information they were not authorized to, as in, theft of secrets. Yes, it's a thing.

    As for the rest of EG's spewing - good gracious, I thought you wanted to avoid associations with Thermy, why on earth try to match him in a word count eruption? I'll set aside the propaganda, it's worn a bit thin and has no impact anymore.

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    its the working unreported to 2 different organizations, companies, countries, etc that pissed the government off
    .
    most places do not allow anybody to be also working for a competitor. I have seen engineers moonlighting on basic technology designs get fired for working for another company at same time as working for primary employer. doesn't matter even if basic unsophisticated design engineering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Considering that the "communism" in China (and wherever else it allegedly is in the world) is in name only, does it matter?

    OK, I've worked for the "Big Two" in Cambridge, and yes, they're centers of learning and part of their mission is indeed the dissemination of knowledge. But not all, and not those parts of research that are specifically funded and that have constraints on publication of all or parts of the research topics.

    It ain't a wide-open commune - I don't remember having to tell everyone my bank information and passwords when I worked at the labs.

    The professor did not disclose his payments from the CN government, and did not register as a "foreign agent", as one is required to do if one wishes to stay within the law in this country. The Chinese folks also diverted information they were not authorized to, as in, theft of secrets. Yes, it's a thing.

    <>
    Indeed.

    I didn't file my / our patents in China simply because I knew as "The little guy" I'd have zero chance of any kind of legal recourse on Chinese soil. + If Microsoft can't defend it's own IP on Chinese soil what chance would I have. My patent attorneys kept trying to push me to file in China, (when China was "trendy" business wise) but I strongly resisted that. Key point being that having my tech completely described in Chinese (patent) archives would work against me.

    Other territories that I have patents in like Switzerland , EU ~ (Germany, France , etc.) U.K. separately, Canada separately , USA and even India... ALL have some kind of mechanism (if I have to) to protect my I.P. Sooooo If for example the Chinese steal / implement and then most critically - Sell into those territories then I have some capability to block that in terms of actual "Damages".

    So if the Chinese take what I have done and develop that into products that they sell for the Chinese market I'm kind of OK- ish about that as I have never really wanted to do business in China.

    The other thing that gets a little awkward with patents and IP is the "Right to experiment", so theoretically a university pretty much anywhere in the world can read patent literature and have the right to "Practice the invention".

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    you cannot work for 2 different companies in the same business at the same time especially if unreported.
    .
    even a machinist if monnlighting working at a competitors machine shop 99% of time the primary employer will be upset
    .
    many have been fired from their job cause they thought it was ok to work for 2 different companies especially if in the same type of business. its not like the machinist is monnlighting delivery pizza.
    .
    engineers, scientist are even more in a exclusive job arrangement. part time consultants fall in a gray area but easily can get into trouble

  18. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    It's the lure of easy money .....It's gotta very strong appeal.
    Catchy line....I feel a song coming on....
    YouTube

    I think 90% of the lyrics apply to the original post.

    Don't know where "Telluride" fit's in here though...

  19. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMF_TomB View Post
    experts are hired from all over the world. many Chinese scientist work for USA companies, many educated people born and educated in other countries live and work in the USA for USA companies.
    .
    what most companies do not like is people who not do ALL their work exclusively for one company, country, organization. most do not like or allow any scientist or engineer or consultant to be working for 2 or more companies.
    .
    that is a problem with consultants. do they also consult with others ? even Engineers have been fired for moonlighting or doing engineering for for other companies. most companies expect and demand a exclusive arrangement
    The DOD is mainly concerned that stuff they paid for (research wise) is going to China for 'FREE" via Dr. Lieber (prof. at Harvard University).

    US tax payer dollars helping the PRC.

    In my company / little ship "TRUST" is the number 1 criteria way and above technical capability , talent and expertise.

    People do leave companies or their contracts expire, so technically can you really own everything in someone's head ?

    We used to say "Intellectual Capital" (as distinct from IP ) is what walks out the door every evening.

    __________________________________________________ ______________________________

    IME ,

    DOD + Academe = car crash,

    DOD + Commercial sector also = total car crash,

    Commercial sector + Academe = car crash,

    And seemingly the DOD and US state department is VERY concerned about seemingly civilian "Sector" tech benefiting People's Republic of China / military.

    Ohh yeah Tech + law = massive car crash related to IP.

    So that's why there are DOD labs that don't interface with any other types of entities outside of the DOD.

    Theft is theft, so if you "take " something that does not belong to you, and sell that to someone else, that is still theft.

    This is going to be a very very complicated landmark case, that will probably be discussed and used as part of 'Case law" for decades to come ~ Whether this actually goes to trial or not remains to be seen.

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  21. #37
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    Once again,

    Per the article and other sources he was receiving millions of dollars in Department of Defense funding at the same time he accepted millions in undisclosed funds from the Chinese government. He also set up a lab in China with Chinese government funding that could duplicate the work done in Cambridge.

    He knew the rules but chose to ignore them. You can't serve two masters at the same time, especially when those same two masters are involved in numerous conflicts.

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  23. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Once again,

    Per the article and other sources he was receiving millions of dollars in Department of Defense funding at the same time he accepted millions in undisclosed funds from the Chinese government. He also set up a lab in China with Chinese government funding that could duplicate the work done in Cambridge.

    He knew the rules but chose to ignore them. You can't serve two masters at the same time, especially when those same two masters are involved in numerous conflicts.
    I'm wondering how such obvious conflicts of interest were not declared at the outset.

    Time willing I'll dig deeper on this case over the next week or two.

    I'm wondering if there were particular timelines as to how all these things developed "organically" , phased in different ways to break obvious and immediate conflicts of interest at the time of initial grants / contracts ~ Then later became super relevant i.e. the DOD may have been asleep at the wheel on that one - Hard to predict what tech becomes super strategic / important in some cases .

    So for example the area of research that Dr. Lieber was working in may not have been deemed as particularly interesting or necessarily "Strategic" …

    It could be that Dr. Lieber went,

    Dr L : "Hey DOD you need to throw some MORE money at this … "

    DOD : "Meh" not interested...

    Dr. L : "No this is really important and needs proper funding , if we don't do this someone else will."

    DOD: "Meh... "

    5 years later

    DOD: "WTF DR Lieber !!!!"

    Dr. L: "You guys blew me off so I took it to the Chinese"

    DOD: " OK so NOW we see that your work is really important but given that you lied and other charges we're gonna put you in hand cuffs".

    Dr. L: "Nice".

    ___________________________

    Highly speculative (obviously) but makes me wonder how such a situation could emerge and I'm guessing over a considerable period of time.

  24. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    It would appear that very few of you lot posting on this thread have bothered to read the cited article. Senator McCarthy would be proud of you...
    Read the super lightweight article before posting.
    Know and understand the game. This is fluff done to promote someone's career on the prosecute side.
    Your boss and more important your bosses boss and higher want to do something to make the news cycle.
    Make no doubt that there is a bias applied upstairs and that should be no surprise to anyone.
    Rev up your base is how that end of the game is played so I'd expect more to come in this election cycle.
    End results or even any truth will never make that cycle but it did lead and bleed.
    Bob
    (little sister and other family went to Harvard, all I got was a sweatshirt but a subscription to Harvard Businesses Review was certainly educational)

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    <>

    (little sister and other family went to Harvard, all I got was a sweatshirt but a subscription to Harvard Businesses Review was certainly educational)
    Nice !

    Each issue on it's own is f*cking expensive … I only buy those at the airport and skip the issue I don't want or need... Like between $20-$30 / per issue.

    Your family must love you very much.

    As far as Harvard Business School goes - there's still a huge gap between start up's and incubators versus what they teach there to manage giant pre-existing corporations. I (personally) think there's still a huge gap there and not something that may be easy or possible to "Teach" formally.


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